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Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by ann, Dec 11, 2004.
Someone should e mail this guy and tell him Azo is not POP....
Also, it looks like this person is interested in setting up his own Azo-selling biz. IMO, it would be much more beneficial to the life of Azo itself and photography in general for everyone to buy their Azo from Michael Smith and Paula Chamlee at michaelandpaula.com. Their bulk orders from Kodak single-handedly keep the paper from being discontinued. Breaking up the vendor market seems like an unhealthy thing to do at this point.
(*sigh*) if only they or someone would have been able to do that with SuperXX film. I never used it before it went away, but the stories I've heard make it sound wonderful. At least M&P were able to max out their personal credit and buy all remaining stock for their own lifetime supply.
The stories are true, but before Super XX gets elevated to cult status, it was, after all, only film. Great curve; thick base; N+2; very forgiving. It was the only film I used for 10 years and I (sob) do miss it!
well, i am glad you all checked this out. i just saw this headline when checking on what paper was being listed for today, but didn't pay any attention to the specifics.
I agree that if i was using this paper i would certainly purchase it from Paula, and Micahel as they certainly have put their money were their mouth is
As much as I feel M & P should be supported as far as Kodak is concerned, if 1000 boxes go out the door to M & P or 400 to them and 300 so someone else and 300 to a third person it's still 1000 boxes. It would be easier for them to only deal with one customer, but competition in the market place is always the best thing for the consumer.
Jorge, i read that some guy uses AZO as a POP paper, he said he got very neat results, the contrast is way lower but he seems to love the results. I am hoping to give it a try sometime.
Try buying a 100 sheet box of Grade 3 Azo anywhere else and your opinion may change.
Also, their commitment to keeping Azo alive has resulted in a special relationship with Kodak and the people who make these decisions about what gets the axe. They had to make a commitment to Kodak to get this last master roll of Grade 3 run. It's very important that those of us who use the product help them keep that commitment. In that way when it's again thrown up onto the chopping block, odds will be better that M&P can get them to run another roll. Think B&H will do that for you? Calumet? What's their commitment to keeping fine materials in production?
That and which grade it is.
Okay, Michael and Paula saved it, great. Wouldn't it be better if there was enough demand for this stuff that others were able to sell it. I mean once something is saved don't people want it to spread. I am happy it was saved but Michael has said over and over that selling AZO is not his prime business, meaning there would be room for more dealers and that brings competition. I for one will be really happy when I have a choice of who I buy from that means the stuff is doing really well and Kodak won't chop something that is doing well. I assume.
Strictly speaking AZO isn't POP nor could it be used as POP since it requires development of the latent image and is not self masking.
Don, I remember one day leaving a sheet of AZO on my kitchen counter, when I came back after some time, maybe a day or two, the paper was completely fogged. I believe that if you put a negative on top of the paper, you can fog and image onto it. It will not have dark dmax but it will print.
So will any paper: FB, RC, or newsprint.
If you have a look in the Experimental Galley, you'll find some prints by Lasse Melberg (sp?). He's using Sodium Nitrite (not nitrate) on contact printing papers to render them useful for POP. I've been meaning to try it when I find some of that chem.
Any silver gelatin paper will darken upon exposure to light but that doesn't make it a POP paper.
Deniz and Mateo are right, Lasse is modifying Azo to become a POP paper, but that is a modification and not the intended use of the paper. Someone selling it should know what it is, otherwise how do we know he has taken good care of it. For all we know this guy is storing the paper right above the room heater.
I have no plans to use Azo, but if I did, I would get it from Michael, not only do you help keep your favorite paper alive, but you get the wealth of knowledge and a guarantee from Michael. YOu can bet if there is something wrong with the paper Michael will fix it. I am not so sure about this guy on e bay, I mean, if he does not know what azo is, how is he supposed to know if something is wrong with the paper or not..... no?
All right I didn't know that every paper will darken upon exposure. I thought that AZO being silver chloride...
I just checked albumen works and it says that POP paper is gelatin silver chloride with an excess of silver nitrate.
I guess that explains my confusion and clears my confusion.
Which is what Lasse is doing, you can place Azo in a Silver nitrate bath and make it POP, but it is not inherently so...
The market for Azo is miniscule at best. If people do not support Michael and Paula and splinter the market, then noone will have enough volume to run the next master roll
I think that competition is a distant second. The best thing for the consumer, first and foremost, is for the product to be available. Michael and Paula have done a good job of ensuring that Azo remains available for now and I prefer to support them because of it.
My point precisely, even though I didn't state it very well. My understanding is that with their current volume, Michael and Paula are barely able to order enough Azo to make it over the threshold of demand that Kodak requires to keep this product afloat. Split between two or more buyers, I don't think Kodak would do the same thing. Kodak also regards M&P as the preeminent end-user experts in Azo, working with them on multiple occasions to tweak the production line to better meet the expectations of the fine art market. Although this kind of user/producer|distributor relationship is somewhat routine with a vendor like JandC, it seems to be absolutely unique among the multinationals like Kodak. I doubt that any other vendor/user relationship has had the historically positive impact that Michael and Paula's relationship with Kodak has. Azo is the last of a breed. If it goes, an entire category of photographic material goes with it.
Yes, compared with enlarging papers, the Azo market is tiny. There's a new wrinkle, though. An enlarger head suitable for printing on Azo is available. Discussion and availability information is in these threads:
"Enlarging on Azo is now a reality" (Azo Forum)
"Enlarging on Azo now a reality" (photo.net)
"APUG Forums - AZO Enlarger Head" (apug.org)
"Any updates on the AZO Enlarger Head?" (Azo forum)
Broad acceptance of the Azo enlarging head might mean an inroad for Azo to the enlarging market and greater volume in sales.