At the risk of beating a dead horse please read.

Brentwood Kebab!

A
Brentwood Kebab!

  • 0
  • 0
  • 21
Summer Lady

A
Summer Lady

  • 0
  • 0
  • 24
DINO Acting Up !

A
DINO Acting Up !

  • 0
  • 0
  • 17
What Have They Seen?

A
What Have They Seen?

  • 0
  • 0
  • 26
Lady With Attitude !

A
Lady With Attitude !

  • 0
  • 0
  • 30

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
198,757
Messages
2,780,501
Members
99,700
Latest member
Harryyang
Recent bookmarks
0

mark

Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2003
Messages
5,703
What do you mean Donald?
 

Donald Miller

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2002
Messages
6,230
Format
Large Format
mark said:
What do you mean Donald?

I was simply asking a question based upon Steve's viewpoint in which he seemed to apparently indicate that a system has no validity in the creation of art.
 

anyte

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2004
Messages
701
Location
Minnesota
Format
35mm
The main objection seems to be that it is primarily a mechanical process that handles most of the work—that the photographer has nothing further to do with it, other than some manipulation in the printing of the picture

I don't find that to be entirely accurate.

Some photography is intended as art, and some of that which is intended comes across as art while some it is completely lost on the viewer. Some photography has a purpose other than being art.

Photography, art or not, is not merely a mechanical process. Why does the writer brush aside the work that is done in the darkroom as though it doesn't count as part of the creative process? What about setting and chosing lighting? What about multiple exposures? Exposure isn't just about getting the right light to produce a photo, it's about manipulating or using light to an end. The lighting, the subject and the layering of exposures isn't something the camera chooses, it's something the photographer envisions and sets out to do. Art photography doesn't even have to be that involved - the vision is still the photographers and the photographer must use his knowledge and skill to transfer the vision to film and then to print.

I think a lot of it is a matter of perspective. In general you can refer to almost anything as art, including my nature photos, but I personally don't see a purpose to it. It's not intended as art, neither are a lot of my drawings. Some things just are. I consider photography that's intended as art to be fine art, everything else I consider as photographs.
 

anyte

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2004
Messages
701
Location
Minnesota
Format
35mm
Oops. I can't concentrate with a 2 yr old under my chair. I failed to address the issue of whether you need to be trained as a fine art painter to be a fine art photographer.

Simply put - no. The only reason I can imagine people would think so is simply because man has been painting centuries longer than he has been photographing. Training in fine art painting or drawing or any other medium may enhance a persons ability as a fine art photographer but I hardly think it's a prerequesite.
 

mark

Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2003
Messages
5,703
Donald Miller said:
I was simply asking a question based upon Steve's viewpoint in which he seemed to apparently indicate that a system has no validity in the creation of art.

Okay. I get it. Interesting thought.
 

jimgalli

Subscriber
Joined
Sep 7, 2002
Messages
4,236
Location
Tonopah Neva
Format
ULarge Format
A most telling statement in the note on "Amy with Ribbon" 1962;

"as much of a smile as I allow"

Mr. Balcomb seems to me to be a pompous sourpuss. And his photos had already told me that before I read it in his statements.

It takes all types of folks to make up the world. Reading through many different photographers bio's and writings I say to myself, I would get along great with this person..........or not. I doubt if Mr. Balcomb and me would hit it off.

I do believe that "art" that ineffable un-defineable whatever-it-is comes from a spark of creativity given more to some by the Creator than others. There are a lot of technicians.......few artists.
 

mark

Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2003
Messages
5,703

ksmattfish

Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2003
Messages
88
Location
Lawrence, KS
Format
Medium Format
One of my favorite quotes...

"The word 'art' is very slippery. It really has no importance in relation to
one's work. I work for the pleasure, for the pleasure of the work, and everything
else is a matter for the critics." -Manuel Alvarez Bravo
 

TPPhotog

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2004
Messages
3,041
Format
Multi Format
Another good quote?

"Maybe the judgment of whether something is art or not should come from the viewer and not the doer" - Alan Babbitt
 

photomc

Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2003
Messages
3,575
Location
Texas
Format
Multi Format
Donald,
You raise some very interesting thoughts and questions. My own thoughts are that we are in some ways, in the Western world, trained to think within limits...thus the Western style or view of Art (not as in old west). It is not a bad thing, because we should learn from some starting point, most of us are not gifted to the point we can just start with a medium and produce work that is off the beaten path. I have commented before that I find today's architecture dull and uninspired compared to the work at in the US at the turn of the last century. These are the same buildings we find a need to photograph, perhaps not because we think they make beautiful photographs or works of art, but because we feel the need to preserve them somehow, before they are torn down and replaced with less inspired work. The same thing with automobiles, many have become dull and boring. Mass produced work, art or otherwise has become the norm and I do see why you feel left empty by what you see. It is my opinion that the digital age will only add to that mass of work.

It is my own hope that by learning to produce the very best work, while still not as inspired as I hope, that I can develope the knowledge to forget about the technical part of photography and pull what is inside out and produce work that is indeed art. Spent some time this weekend playing with some ortho film, contact printed a negative and then exposed paper with the sandwich...results are interesting, but nothing worth showing. More work to do before I think I will have anything and may end up with nothing..but an attempt to take the ordinary and make it new...

Where does that leave us...honestly I don't have a clue. I do think we should move forward, accept the fact that most of us will never produce anything near the potential we have to produce, we will not set the world on it's ear...yet I am so happy that there are those that will....and very happy to hang the work of others on my own walls that while maybe not new and to some not art, but their work speaks to me and in the end that is all that really matters. There isn't a critic around that can change my mind about what I like, this is what really matters. So with that thought the original post - if the individual is please with their work, then that is all the justification that is needed. Only, do not place blame or lament about how someone held you back..the only person that can keep you from doing the work the way you want is you.
 

Donald Miller

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2002
Messages
6,230
Format
Large Format
photomc said:
Donald,
You raise some very interesting thoughts and questions. My own thoughts are that we are in some ways, in the Western world, trained to think within limits...thus the Western style or view of Art (not as in old west). It is not a bad thing, because we should learn from some starting point, most of us are not gifted to the point we can just start with a medium and produce work that is off the beaten path. I have commented before that I find today's architecture dull and uninspired compared to the work at in the US at the turn of the last century. These are the same buildings we find a need to photograph, perhaps not because we think they make beautiful photographs or works of art, but because we feel the need to preserve them somehow, before they are torn down and replaced with less inspired work. The same thing with automobiles, many have become dull and boring. Mass produced work, art or otherwise has become the norm and I do see why you feel left empty by what you see. It is my opinion that the digital age will only add to that mass of work.

It is my own hope that by learning to produce the very best work, while still not as inspired as I hope, that I can develope the knowledge to forget about the technical part of photography and pull what is inside out and produce work that is indeed art. Spent some time this weekend playing with some ortho film, contact printed a negative and then exposed paper with the sandwich...results are interesting, but nothing worth showing. More work to do before I think I will have anything and may end up with nothing..but an attempt to take the ordinary and make it new...

Where does that leave us...honestly I don't have a clue. I do think we should move forward, accept the fact that most of us will never produce anything near the potential we have to produce, we will not set the world on it's ear...yet I am so happy that there are those that will....and very happy to hang the work of others on my own walls that while maybe not new and to some not art, but their work speaks to me and in the end that is all that really matters. There isn't a critic around that can change my mind about what I like, this is what really matters. So with that thought the original post - if the individual is please with their work, then that is all the justification that is needed. Only, do not place blame or lament about how someone held you back..the only person that can keep you from doing the work the way you want is you.

Mike,

Thank you for your thoughts which were well expressed. I think that if I would have been able to first learn the principles of depth of field, exposure, and the characteristics of the materials that I use and second have forgotten or unlearned every other thing that I thought that I knew about this life that I would have been a phenomenal photographer...Unfortunately I have accomplished the first and failed miserably at the second.
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom