Astia 100F, Sensia 3, T64 discontinued

[Roger Cole]

That of course is the OTHER Ilford--not Simon's current gig.

And what is it with those guys- do they not want to sell product? I mean, I know the Swiss are reserved and all, but that's ridiculous!:confused:

I don't think they actually do want to bother with selling this stuff, but keep doing it for now because they have contracts with some military organization(s.)

 

[hpulley]

The Swiss Ilfochrome Ilford plant and company are now separate from HARMAN Technologies in the UK, are they not? The Wikipedia page says all new products at HARMAN must be called HARMAN but the 300 Art paper is new and it is called ILFORD so I guess that shows how much faith I should have in Wikipedia articles.

Sadly Ilfochrome paper makes B&W paper look very cheap! 16x20 50 sheets for $534 at B&H... ouch. Here in Canada I recently spent $200 on 50 sheets of Ilford MGIVFB 16x20 ($155 at B&H but with $20 shipping and some duties I just buy it here in the store). I thought this was a lot to spend on paper but compared to the Ilfochrome, $4/sheet seems downright affordable...

 

[lxdude]

I thought this was a lot to spend on paper but compared to the Ilfochrome, $4/sheet seems downright affordable...

But the Ilfochrome does give better color.

 

[hpulley]

But the Ilfochrome does give better color.

Yes indeed though I do have to try MGIVFB with sepia for a touch of color

In truth however, RA-4 is just dead cheap compared to either Ilfochrome or Ilford MultiGrade. For comparison I can get 50 sheets of 16x20 Fuji CA Type II for $80... or about 1/7th the price of Ilfochrome. Fuji CA is RC and perhaps half weight; for a fairer comparison MGIVRC is only $128 compared to $155 for FB. Color FB would be fun but haven't seen that for decades.

 

[Simon R Galley]

Dear HPulley,

Firstly thank you for buying and valuing ILFORD Photo products :

I am sure many people have thought the same... it is obviously partially volume related, lots and lots of m2of RA4 paper is made still all around the world so people can have lots of low cost digi prints made.

ILFOCHROME is one of the most complicated coatings ever, more like coating a colour tranny film....multiple layers in multiple passes.

Monochrome paper has a very high silver content compared to colour paper, slower coating speeds, higher waste and other raw material costs are significantly higher as they are made and bought in lower volumes. Next, monochrome paper finishing ( from parent roll to box ) is more labour intensive with less automation, especially outside of the higher volume sellers like 10" x 8". In addition, import duties ( depending on where you are buying ) trans ocean shipping costs et, etc.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology LImited :

 

[hpulley]

Sorry, Simon, my post was not meant to be a complaint about the price, just a comparison. You're right of course, the high volume of wet digital RA-4 printing keeps that paper cheap, luckily we can still use some of it optically too. Ilfochrome use must be rare these days.

B&W 8x10 paper is used by photography 101 courses everywhere which probably keeps its volume up. That tray size comes with just about every rummage sale darkroom too while larger trays are uncommon. I just prefer bigger prints, they really come alive.

50 sheets of double weight fiber based paper is bulky and heavy for shipping I know.

I print FP4+ on 16x20 right to the edge of the paper. Ilford MGIVFB in 2L of Bromophen 1+3 in a tray gives me deep, rich blacks evenly all over the whole surface. I love the look of it and think $4/sheet is worth it for the high level of quality and consistency from sheet to sheet.

Thanks. Keep on making quality products and I'll keep buying them.

Sorry for taking this so off topic...

Harry

 

[Simon R Galley]

Dear Harry,

I certainly didn't see it as a complaint, just an observation that I thought deserved a reply...

I really like big prints ( and negs ) as well...but it undoubtedly costs me a lot less to photograph and print than it does you...... although I actually did some contact prints this week from 5 x 4 negs ( actually from our new pinhole camera ) and I really like small as well, they just look great with a wide white mount and framed with a centimetre gloss black frame.....

Best Regards

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology limited :



Simon.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...I have been party to all kind of fading tests etc for ILFOCHROMES since 1987 when I joined ILFORD...we had them on our roof as well...

I'd wager that the insolation on your roof is a wee bit less than what one experiences on a roof in Los Angeles.

 

[hpulley]

I love the postcard exchange partly because it shows you don't have to print huge to make an impact but I used to love to shoot chromes since with a big projection screen you get a big glowing view without a print.

 

[Klainmeister]

I also wish Ilfochrome wasn't so darned expensive. I shoot slides because I like to see exactly what I shot when on a light-table, they're easier to scan, and I am slowly building a collection of 6x7's to one day be Ilfochrome printed--you know, when I hit the lottery.

My photographic mentor has a bunch of shots from Antelope Canyon and other Utah scenes done on Cibachrome/Ilfochrome and we put his modern inkjet prints up next to them and yea....no comparison. Gotta save up for that one day.

 

[CGW]

Dear Harry,

I certainly didn't see it as a complaint, just an observation that I thought deserved a reply...

I really like big prints ( and negs ) as well...but it undoubtedly costs me a lot less to photograph and print than it does you...... although I actually did some contact prints this week from 5 x 4 negs ( actually from our new pinhole camera ) and I really like small as well, they just look great with a wide white mount and framed with a centimetre gloss black frame.....



Best Regards

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology limited :



Simon.

Have to ask, Simon. What's up with that 4x5 pinhole camera that I believe was featured in a recent Youtube/Vimeo infomercial for your direct positive paper? Looked very promising.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

[...]
My photographic mentor has a bunch of shots from Antelope Canyon and other Utah scenes done on Cibachrome/Ilfochrome and we put his modern inkjet prints up next to them and yea....no comparison. Gotta save up for that one day.

Slot, Antelope and other Utah canyon imaging must, must, must go to the Ilfochrome process. The defunct Ilfochrome lab in Adelaide Australia featured massive mural 'chromes of Slot and Antelope Canyons and its totally unbelievable (but nevertheless real) wild play of light of such clarity and intensity that years after seeing them the shock is seared into memory. And they cost a pretty penny, too! These chromes were cold-bonded to alloy plate to give them such a heightened realty that it brought on gasps and spells of vertigo in visitors. When the business closed, these monster prints were returned to the photographers, Peter Lik among (there were about 12).

I don't think 100F has ever been Fuji's top-shelf seller, though through long personal experience it is very, very good for landscapes (I have had many Ilfochromes printed from 35mm trannies), though Velvia 50 remains the gold standard when you have Ilfochrome in mind at the end. Historically, I've had trouble with the reds of Fuji 100F under POL; the film is is excellent for raising mute yellow and brown tones (in diffuse light), but it is very bland with the greens. It requires judicious bumping with a polariser to get some colour combos to jump. Anyhow, still got various other films to play with!

 

[Klainmeister]

If we could do color scans on this site, I'd show you some of my more recent shots from Utah with Velvia 50 and my Mamiya 7ii....they are truly amazing in contrast and color. I currently have about 6 images worthy of such an honor...

I wonder where you could learn a trade like Ilfochromes....seems like a niche market.

 

[tomalophicon]

If we could do color scans on this site, I'd show you some of my more recent shots from Utah with Velvia 50 and my Mamiya 7ii....they are truly amazing in contrast and color. I currently have about 6 images worthy of such an honor...

I wonder where you could learn a trade like Ilfochromes....seems like a niche market.

Are we only allowed to show black and white?
Stop pussy-footing about and show them, man!

 

[chriscrawfordphoto]

If we could do color scans on this site, I'd show you some of my more recent shots from Utah with Velvia 50 and my Mamiya 7ii....they are truly amazing in contrast and color. I currently have about 6 images worthy of such an honor...

I wonder where you could learn a trade like Ilfochromes....seems like a niche market.

Its ok to show scans here, its the only way to get film images on the web. APUG generally discourages talking about scanning and digital editing (eg. Photoshop) of images since this place is for film photography, but you're certainly allowed to show JPEGs scanned from film or prints.

 

[2F/2F]

Hi,

I am not saying that the print faded into nothing in under an hour. But that is when the first signs of fading occurred. The first change was a loss of brilliance in the reds.

 

[Rudeofus]

I wonder where you could learn a trade like Ilfochromes....seems like a niche market.

A description of how to process your prints can be found on luminous landscape.

While this describes the process in great detail, I had to find ways to make this process work in a simple dark room environment and in a way which doesn't burn through sheet after sheet and liters of chemistry before reaching the first useful result. I summed up my methods and observations (there was a url link here which no longer exists). I also received most helpful hints in (there was a url link here which no longer exists) and (there was a url link here which no longer exists) thread.

 

[Rudeofus]

Anyhow, still got various other films to play with!

This essentially sums up the looming problem with color slide film, and it is IMHO the reason even those who rarely use them should be concerned about the discontinuation of Astia, Sensia and 64T. There appear to be 2 manufacturers of this type of film which, together, offer a broad range of color palettes and useable speeds from 25 (Velvia 50 pulled) to 1600 (400X pushed). I assume none of these films sell really all that well (compared to let's say 1990) so the motivation is high for each of them to discontinue some slow movers.

But what they really do is they destroy the whole and complete range of colors and saturations. We end up like with a set of crayons that has no green and brown color crayons, even if you only rarely use these specific colors the whole set becomes useless. The discontinuation of a few Fuji slide films may benefit Fuji in the short run but at the same time also hurts the viability of all slide films .

 

[CGW]

This essentially sums up the looming problem with color slide film, and it is IMHO the reason even those who rarely use them should be concerned about the discontinuation of Astia, Sensia and 64T. There appear to be 2 manufacturers of this type of film which, together, offer a broad range of color palettes and useable speeds from 25 (Velvia 50 pulled) to 1600 (400X pushed). I assume none of these films sell really all that well (compared to let's say 1990) so the motivation is high for each of them to discontinue some slow movers.

But what they really do is they destroy the whole and complete range of colors and saturations. We end up like with a set of crayons that has no green and brown color crayons, even if you only rarely use these specific colors the whole set becomes useless. The discontinuation of a few Fuji slide films may benefit Fuji in the short run but at the same time also hurts the viability of all slide films .

What viability? It's 2011. E6 film sales tanked 5-7 years ago along with quality processing in many markets. Pro E6 shooters kept it all afloat until they switched to digital. Amateurs could never sustain that kind of volume. But then none of this is really news, is it?

 

[Simon R Galley]

Dear CGW....

The HARMAN Titan pinhole camera is now in full production !

I will be in a position to release full details including availability dates early next week, I was fortuanate enough to have a go with one last week and I have to say it was a lot of fun...

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology limited :

 

[CGW]

Dear CGW....

The HARMAN Titan pinhole camera is now in full production !

I will be in a position to release full details including availability dates early next week, I was fortuanate enough to have a go with one last week and I have to say it was a lot of fun...

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology limited :

Thanks for the update, Simon. Along with the direct positive paper, it's a welcome addition to the strange world of optical-chemical photography.

 

[Tim Gray]

Dear CGW....

The HARMAN Titan pinhole camera is now in full production !

I will be in a position to release full details including availability dates early next week, I was fortuanate enough to have a go with one last week and I have to say it was a lot of fun...

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology limited :

Just watched the video with it. Looks very cool. I'll probably be in for one...

 

[Rudeofus]

What viability? It's 2011. E6 film sales tanked 5-7 years ago along with quality processing in many markets. Pro E6 shooters kept it all afloat until they switched to digital. Amateurs could never sustain that kind of volume. But then none of this is really news, is it?

I meant viability not in terms of high volume/profit for the makers of slide film. Instead I meant that slide film as a medium is only useful if you can get a range of different films with a choice of contrast and saturation levels. I wouldn't bother with slide film if E100VS (my absolute personal favorite) was the only choice, as certainly not every subject warrants its level of contrast and saturation.

 

[CGW]

I meant viability not in terms of high volume/profit for the makers of slide film. Instead I meant that slide film as a medium is only useful if you can get a range of different films with a choice of contrast and saturation levels. I wouldn't bother with slide film if E100VS (my absolute personal favorite) was the only choice, as certainly not every subject warrants its level of contrast and saturation.

It's not useful, then, if availability of a slew of films defines that. It's pretty much over as a photographic material. That just gets more obvious as E6 lines close and films disappear.

 

[Rudeofus]

It's not useful, then, if availability of a slew of films defines that. It's pretty much over as a photographic material. That just gets more obvious as E6 lines close and films disappear.

I don't care much about E6 lines as it is not all that hard to do E6 at home. I also understand that consumer slide films like Sensia go away, as the cost of film is hardly an issue with the few remaining slide shooters.

Astia going away really hurts me because it is a unique film with beautifully muted colors perfectly suitable for a range of subjects. It also caught me by surprise as Fuji made a very strong statement for slide film with its Provia 400X released only a few years ago.

So while slide film may be over and done with for you, I will grab a few dozen rolls of Astia in the next few weeks, so slide film won't be over for me in the next few years.