As a photographer, which is worst?

[Mainecoonmaniac]

The Dunning Kruger Effect or the Imposter Syndrome?

But I wonder if I smeared lemon juice on my face, I'd be a better photographer?

Enjoy the video!

 

[jim10219]

For the photographer, Imposter Syndrome is worse. Not believing in yourself can have a terrible effect on your work. You're better off thinking you're better than you are because sometimes you'll accidentally succeed even when failure was much more likely. Plus, in today's world, there's very little consequence for failing. It's pretty easy to control your image online, assuming you don't go viral in a negative way, and word of mouth is a lot better tool for promotion than negative persuasion. On top of all of that, price and branding are probably your biggest assets as a photographer. The average Joe doesn't know the difference between a good photo and a bad one, but they sure know the difference between a cheap photo and an expensive one. And if your website and business card/office say "professional", they'll probably be inclined to agree.

For the client, Dunning-Kruger is worse. Clients are always happier if you under promise and over deliver. Sure, there's something to be said about talking up a bad product to the client to get them to like it. But I'm sure they'll eventually compare your photos to other ones like it and eventually decide on their own if it was worth the money or not.

In any case, greatness doesn't come from comparing yourself to others. It comes from constantly striving to do better than you've done before. So it's probably best to not worry about how good or bad you are, but rather just focus on how you can improve. Life's a journey, not a destination. So treating it like a race against others won't help you because there's no finish line to cross. The goal is to each day get a little further down your path.

 

[Helios 1984]

When I began to use a dSLR, I was hanging out on a computer forum with a section dedicated to photography. There was a few Pro hanging there, the kind who studied photography and couldn't bare to see amateurs using cameras, the kind who shut you down each time you post something they deem crap (About everything which wasn't posted by them). Needless to say that it was a destructive environment, I stopped to share my pictures and it took me a few years to start doing it again. I eventually realized that my pictures didn't need to be contest material, they didn't need to be perfect, they just needed to please me even if only a little. This (and not paying attention to elitist shenanigans) helped to get confidence and to improve.

Ps: I hope this fall within the scope of this thread?

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

When I began to use a dSLR, I was hanging out on a computer forum with a section dedicated to photography. There was a few Pro hanging there, the kind who studied photography and couldn't bare to see amateurs using cameras, the kind who shut you down each time you post something they deem crap

I think good photographers and good people woudn't participate in such counterproductive posts. Hopefully, a professional in what ever field would help those less experience to advance their vocation. Too bad some don't see a profession beyond themselves. I was fortunate to have mentors when I was out of college. One of the things I learned from assisting was professional conduct which was to help others in their profession. It's good karma.

 

[Down Under]

When I began to use a dSLR, I was hanging out on a computer forum with a section dedicated to photography. There was a few Pro hanging there, the kind who studied photography and couldn't bare to see amateurs using cameras, the kind who shut you down each time you post something they deem crap (About everything which wasn't posted by them). Needless to say that it was a destructive environment, I stopped to share my pictures and it took me a few years to start doing it again. I eventually realized that my pictures didn't need to be contest material, they didn't need to be perfect, they just needed to please me even if only a little. This (and not paying attention to elitist shenanigans) helped to get confidence and to improve.

Ps: I hope this fall within the scope of this thread?

Cannot speak for others, but it certainly fell within my scope.

Currently in this forum is a thread about whether photographers are artists. Very similar to one from 2002. The insecurity recurs, time and again.

Why are we so insecure about what we do? Art or no art, who cares, and why care? Call it art if you like or if it makes you feel better about what you do, but photography is really a craft. Excepting one or two individuals on this site who have walked their own path (one I follow is a regular poster and seems to have done very well with his definitely UNlateral imagery), too many of us live and operate in fixed patterns, stand ready to criticize and put down those who dare to stray or vary from the path, and take themselves much too seriously, this last point I suspect as much in their own unhappy lives as well as with their photography.

To me, the two worst things in life would have to be taking oneself too seriously, thinking in rigid blacks and whites (OK on film, not so in the mind), and being unable to laugh at life and, when the occasion arises, at themselves. Oops, I said two, didn't I? Really meant three. Silly moi.

 

[Sirius Glass]

It is very important to remember if you have a camera that lets you machine gun photographs then you must be an expert photographer.

 

[Cholentpot]

It is very important to remember if you have a camera that lets you machine gun photographs then you must be an expert photographer.

36 shots of 35mm and a motor drive? The nerve! One shot at a time Sir! On wet plate no less. This is the only way to 'expert'.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

The Dunning Kruger Effect or the Imposter Syndrome?

But I wonder if I smeared lemon juice on my face, I'd be a better photographer?

Here is an easier solution. Look at DPreview and determine what is the most popular technique/workflow/brand/zoom focal range/software amongst the "photographers" (frauds) who post there. Then do exactly the opposite.

 

[removed account4]

why is it people have to be so insulting and harsh ?
what is it that makes people at one website or another a fraud ?
people have been using auto winders and following / copying popular photography trends forever ...
are people here frauds? the large format.info site ? pnet?
there really is no superiority .. people use cameras, all types
its too bad people can't just be nice ...

 

[faberryman]

It is very important to remember if you have a camera that lets you machine gun photographs then you must be an expert photographer.

ELX, ELX, ELX...

 

[Sirius Glass]

ELX, ELX, ELX...

Meaning what?

 

[jtk]

Thinking about someone's plaint, earlier today.

I've regularly (maybe weekly) taken part in only one other comparable forum, ever since the Internet struck: http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/tf/lw/THREADSX2.CFM

Those folks are mostly highly skilled and are almost always "nice" to each other.

I've met a few dozen of them in person since 1995. They never claim special expertise, never say anything negative about the other guy. Never claim the methods or tools of the other guy are inferior. Rarely talk about "best vs worst" but are mostly opinionated. Farmers, MDs, PhDs, engineers, cops, plumbers, artists, various scientists, students, retirees. Non-political. Some seem wealthy, some are dirt poor. Real men and women.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

It is very important to remember if you have a camera that lets you machine gun photographs then you must be an expert photographer.

I recall my Zone system instructor in 1981 sneering at motor drives. He used to say, "pick a moment and press the shutter." From that class evolved into a hirable printer in Pro studios. As I moved on to shoot corporate headshots I used an MD11 on my FM and later, my Hass 500 EL for the convenience of film advance without moving my eye from the camera. It increased engagement with my subject and improved flow. Same now with digital and I hardly see that asa a the shotgun approach suggested by many.

That said, I have never considered myself an artist but a commercial photographer. My former Instructor got it.

 

[tballphoto]

The dunning kruger effect is not the thing you really think it is.

Its merely a side shoot of the liberalistic methodology of participation trophies for everything.

 

[KenS]

The ultimate question'
Do you make photographs for "Yourself"...or for "Others' to critique" ?

Ken

 

[gone]

I agree, photography is a craft and an art, but this is in regards to film and alternative process photography. A digital image can be creative and of excellent quality too, but no one can convince me that jpg's, TIFF files and computer hard drives are archival. Not to mention the unknown permanency of non darkroom prints.

Never heard of the Imposter Syndrome. I've been impersonating being a human for many years now w/ some small success. Sometimes even I'm convinced!

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Never heard of the Imposter Syndrome. I've been impersonating being a human for many years now w/ some small success. Sometimes even I'm convinced!

Imposter syndrome is someone knows so much about something that they know enough that they think they don't know enough to be an expert. Dunning Kruger is the opposite. You see those dumbshit experts that don't know enough to know that they don't know that much.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Imposter syndrome is someone knows so much about something that they know enough that they think they don't know enough to be an expert. Dunning Kruger is the opposite. You see those dumbshit experts that don't know enough to know that they don't know that much.

I'm not sure I know, that you know, that I will know how to know how to understand that statement. Ya know?

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I'm not sure I know, that you know, that I will know how to know how to understand that statement. Ya know?

I really don't know anything. I'm a non-expert. I just cope with reality as it comes to me.

 

[awty]

Interesting vid. I dont identify with either, my technical ability has pretty much plateaued to a very gradual incline ( i dont have great technical ability), my creativity goes up and down like a roller coaster. I do agree that you should constantly challenge your perceptions and abilities, get out of your comfort zone.

 

[warden]

The dunning kruger effect is not the thing you really think it is.

Its merely a side shoot of the liberalistic methodology of participation trophies for everything.

You resurrected a thread that's been moribund for three years to say that? I think Dunning and Kruger are quite qualified to define the Dunning Kruger effect, but thanks for entertaining us by demonstrating the effect in real-time. We couldn't ask for more.

 

[tballphoto]

You resurrected a thread that's been moribund for three years to say that? I think Dunning and Kruger are quite qualified to define the Dunning Kruger effect, but thanks for entertaining us by demonstrating the effect in real-time. We couldn't ask for more.

dunning and kruger CAN be considered the epitomes of their theory. They have no actual scientific ability, thus they create a theory and publish it. And because that whole genre of so called research is nothing more then parroting what has been published in an article online.... they become considered genius by those who have even less skill then them.

 

[markjwyatt]

Imposter syndrome is someone knows so much about something that they know enough that they think they don't know enough to be an expert. Dunning Kruger is the opposite. You see those dumbshit experts that don't know enough to know that they don't know that much.

Socrates said something like, the more you know, the more you know how little you actually know. You know what I I mean?

 

[markjwyatt]

Interesting vid. I dont identify with either, my technical ability has pretty much plateaued to a very gradual incline ( i dont have great technical ability), my creativity goes up and down like a roller coaster. I do agree that you should constantly challenge your perceptions and abilities, get out of your comfort zone.

Maybe you are conflating your mood swings with your abilities (for the record your work is always excellent from what I have seen).

 

[markjwyatt]

dunning and kruger CAN be considered the epitomes of their theory. They have no actual scientific ability, thus they create a theory and publish it. And because that whole genre of so called research is nothing more then parroting what has been published in an article online.... they become considered genius by those who have even less skill then them.

but, but, but, it's peer reviewed...