ARTICLE -- New York May Require Photography Permits

[mmcclellan]

From today's New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/29/nyregion/29camera.html

 

[dmr]

This has already generated quite a thread on another system I frequent.

I don't think the sky is falling, but I am concerned about arbitrary and overzealous enforcement, as it's clear that two kids sitting on a park bench with cam phones for more than half an hour would cross the threshold.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Tripod permits are already required, but practical enforcement depends on location, time of day, etc. The permit is free and it takes about a day to get. I believe they used to require insurance, and lifted that requirement during the Bloomberg administration, so the new proposal would restore that requirement.

I don't usually like photographing in the busy, touristy areas of town, so I don't usually bother about the permit. There are certain areas where you are likely to be questioned when using a tripod or unusual looking camera, like the parks along the river in lower Manhattan, but they have their own permit requirements through the Parks Department, and usually let you go once they've ascertained that you're not doing commercial work. Central Park is fine as long as you're not blocking any access roads for too long.

 

[Kino]

Typical bureaucratic response to a botched misuse of (non-existent) regulations; here we go again.

A independent video maker is detained for shooting on the streets, told he must get a permit, but when he tries, he is refused and no explanation and no written guidelines are in existence for either granting or denying a permit.

So, he sues for his rights. Now, as part of a legal settlement brought about by the videomaker , the city has been forced to write guidelines, so they do so in very vague terms and refuse to tighten the laws to restrict them to the very persons they say they are aimed at regulating, with "assurances" they will do the right thing.

Its a form of crappy, bureaucratic "how-dare-you-question-my-authority" revenge posturing, dressed up as "flexibility".

Oh yeah, they ASSURE you they will not abuse the vague, all inclusive wording, but SOMEHOW I don't trust 'em with their past track record and attitude.

 

[jmdavis]

Government is your friend! They are there to protect your rights!

Actually, this is not a major personal issue for me. I don't like New York, don't go to New York, and only marginally care about whether they are still dumping raw sewage in the river or enforcing onerous requirements for photography.

On the other hand, the precedent is bad!!!!

Mike

 

[jovo]

. I don't like New York, don't go to New York, and only marginally care about whether they are still dumping raw sewage in the river or enforcing onerous requirements for photography.

If Virginia is for lovers, you, my friend are not doing your part!

 

[jmdavis]

Take careful note that I'm not the one making personal insults.


Mike

 

[Jersey Vic]

New York City Government: Increasingly friendly to the wishes of big business, increasingly dismissive and hostile to the rights of the individual.

More and more of the city's public (and parking) spaces are cordened off for private parties, additional police parking (even though the force isn't growing), lame redundant street fairs and movie sets but refeeding a parking meter a minute too late will result in $110 ticket for the individual taxpayer.

That being said, it's a stunning place in every way, the food is the best and the people are diverse and fascinating.

 

[Roger Hicks]

.. refeeding a parking meter a minute too late will result in $110 ticket for the individual taxpayer.

Feeding meters at all is illegal in most (all, as far as I know) of the UK.

This sounds like a case for Mass Individual Protests. A British comedian and civil libertarian has been organizing these for ages in London, where you need a permit for a demonstration. He applies for a permit for each location, maybe a dozen or more. The police are legally obliged to issue them. Then a dozen other people will also apply for permits, again a dozen each, all on the same day...

Cheers,

Roger

 

[Andy K]

Roger, you may be thinking of Mark Thomas. A man whose exploits I always have time for.

 

[highpeak]

If Virginia is for lovers, you, my friend are not doing your part!

It's a good one, John, cheers!

Alex W.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Roger, you may be thinking of Mark Thomas. A man whose exploits I always have time for.

Dear Andy,

Absolutely correct. Unfortunately Wanadoo/Orange is currently failing to deliver both Google and (worse) the BBC, so I couldn't check.

I'd heartily recommend that anyone worried by this New York idea check the site you so kindly linked. And buy a McDemo! When will they franchise this to New York?

Cheers, and thanks very much,

Roger

 

[Lee Shively]

I don't intend any insult to New Yorkers but, guys, you really need to do something about your bureaucrats. Admittedly, we have these self-serving government types everywhere but NYC is a nightmare of regulatory stupidity.

I never watch the cable so-called news talk shows at night but I flipped by one last night that made me stop for a few moments. A guy from New Jersey was in NYC with his dog. He apparently left the dog in his vehicle for a few minutes to return and find someone had broken in and his dog had gotten loose. Trying to find the dog, he discovered the city had impounded the animal and would not release it to him until it had been neutered (for which he would have to pay, of course). He won a court injuction to get his dog back, to which the city appealed and, by doing so, could legally keep his dog. Through some legal maneuvering, he mangaged to get the animal returned after paying $10,000 to the city. Admittedly, this is only one person's side to the story but if any part of it is factual, it underscores the nightmare.

 

[copake_ham]

Permits required. Sure hope this doesn't mean the end of the free lunch and snacks snaggable at film shoots?

At most professional film shoots in the City there is usually a table set up with sandwich fixings, cookies, chips etc. intended to feed the hungry film crew. It is perhaps more of an urban myth than reality but rumor has it that some of my fellow citizens (not me of course ) feel it is their civic right to help themselves to the goodies. The reasoning is that since we locals are being inconvenienced by the blocked sidewalks filled with snaking cables we should get a free lunch as recompense!

One of the incidental casualties of this proposed rule could be that no longer will three or more SVA students be allowed to simultaneously shoot together when they are sent out on class assignment to photograph fire hydrants!

In a more serious vein, I do think there is a risk of "selective enforcement". But that will certainly result in an ACLU lawsuit.

And in an even more serious vein than that - to the fellow in Virginia - I do want to thank you for your hospitality. In case you are unaware of it - most of NYC's garbage is barged and then trucked to landfills in your fair Commonwealth! Enjoy the aroma during this Summer's heat.

 

[jmdavis]

And in an even more serious vein than that - to the fellow in Virginia - I do want to thank you for your hospitality. In case you are unaware of it - most of NYC's garbage is barged and then trucked to landfills in your fair Commonwealth! Enjoy the aroma during this Summer's heat.

Actually, it's mostly not trucked to the state, it comes in on freight trains, 3- 40,000lb containers to a car and 60-90 cars in a train. Of course, prior to going to our or Pennsylvania's (PA is the big importer) landfills, NYC was simply dumping it in the ocean. Ah, the days of red bags of medical waste washing up on the beaches. Summer in the city...

Interestingly enough, when we tried to stop it in the legislature, the Great State of New York filed suit based on the Interstate Commerce Act and is allowed to continue the practice. In other words, it will take a Federal law to prevent New York from dumping its waste in Virginia.

 

[Roger Hicks]

In other words, it will take a Federal law to prevent New York from dumping its waste in Virginia.

No shit?

Cheers,

R.

 

[copake_ham]

.....

Interestingly enough, when we tried to stop it in the legislature, the Great State of New York filed suit based on the Interstate Commerce Act and is allowed to continue the practice. In other words, it will take a Federal law to prevent New York from dumping its waste in Virginia.

Yes, and it was a slam dunk lawsuit. You see, your legislators knew all along that they would lose - they just played politics. An earlier suit that went to the Supreme Court affirmed the fact that whether it's widgets or garbage, no State can prohibit interstate trade in goods and services.

And no Federal law would ever stand up either - the ruling was based on the Commerce Clause of the Constitution - not the Interstate Commerce Act. You'd need an Amendment thereto to restrain trade in garbage. Now I'd say "don't hold your breath" but in this context that could have several interpretations!

 

[jmdavis]

No shit?

Cheers,

R.

Well it's mostly household trash, but I guess that there are a few disposable diapers in there.

 

[jmdavis]

Yes, and it was a slam dunk lawsuit. You see, your legislators knew all along that they would lose - they just played politics. An earlier suit that went to the Supreme Court affirmed the fact that whether it's widgets or garbage, no State can prohibit interstate trade in goods and services.

And no Federal law would ever stand up either - the ruling was based on the Commerce Clause of the Constitution - not the Interstate Commerce Act. You'd need an Amendment thereto to restrain trade in garbage. Now I'd say "don't hold your breath" but in this context that could have several interpretations!

Actually a federal law not addressing Interstate Commerce could work just fine. Your response assumes that such legislation (ie. singling out interstate trash) is the only way that we can put a stop to this. I can assure you that there are other legal methods to stop this. Whether it's a matter of weight restrictions on roads, environmental issues with the landfills, onerous speed limits for trucks hauling the containers from the rail to the landfill etc, there are ways that it can be stopped.

For example, every trash truck checked at a recent spot weigh station was overweight, some by tons (ie 110,000lbs rather than 80,000lbs). The fines reached into the many thousands of dollars. With new DMV rules, those fines will be connected to drivers and thus the companies can no longer go bankrupt and then start a new company to avoid them.

 

[Andy K]

This is a valid topic, new restrictions on photographers. I really don't think there's any need for all this trash talk...




...I'll get me coat.

 

[jmdavis]

This is a valid topic, new restrictions on photographers. I really don't think there's any need for all this trash talk...




...I'll get me coat.

good answer

 

[xford35mm]

I was in New Yuck city once and I wasn't impressed. I'll consider this one more reason to keep New Yuck City on my list of places to never see again.

 

[Monophoto]

I can't help but think that while there may be a valid concern behind the proposal, everything ultimately depends on the form of the final rule and how it is enforced.

A factoid mentioned on the news tonight is that NYC hosts 48 million tourists each year. I would venture that each tourist spends something around $100 per day of each visit. That's a lot of money. I would certainly hope the the geniuses who are behind this make sure that it can't be abused in a way that drives tourists away.

On the other hand, politicians have never demonstrated the ability to think beyond the next election, so why should anything be different in this case?

 

[jovo]

I was in New Yuck city once and I wasn't impressed. I'll consider this one more reason to keep New Yuck City on my list of places to never see again.

Really?? I wonder, then, what it must take to start your engine. You must write a cogent critique about what's missing and let us know so we can try and fix it. I'm sure the theaters, concert halls, museums, galleries, stadiums, hotels, restaurants, ethnic neighborhoods and their cuisines and customs, local industries, stock markets, financial centers, universities, just for openers, and all the myriad of folks who populate those endeavors will be agog to read what a fellow from Kentucky has to offer. All New York awaits your revelation! Please...amaze us!

 

[jmdavis]

Really?? I wonder, then, what it must take to start your engine. You must write a cogent critique about what's missing and let us know so we can try and fix it. I'm sure the theaters, concert halls, museums, galleries, stadiums, hotels, restaurants, ethnic neighborhoods and their cuisines and customs, local industries, stock markets, financial centers, universities, just for openers, and all the myriad of folks who populate those endeavors will be agog to read what a fellow from Kentucky has to offer. All New York awaits your revelation! Please...amaze us!

The problem may not be what is missing, but what is in abundance. It just might be the condescending attitudes of some of the citizens. This New York is the center of the universe thing gets old for the other 242million of us. Believe it or not, there is life and art and theatre, and restaurants, stadiums, hotels, ethnicity and cuisine outside of New York.

When did you last sit on the front porch and listen to the crickets, or watch a thunderstorm work its way across the salt marshes toward you, or see an Eagle in your front yard? When did your neighbors last show up to help you put up a fence or build a barn? When was the last time that you picked wild blackberries by the bucket or caught fresh bass or made stew for 200 people?

You comment about people being "agog to read what a fellow from Kentucky has to offer," is condescending and mean. This fellow from Virginia graduated from the Top public Art School in the nation. His documentary work has been screened at Cannes. While still in high school (27 years ago) he had stories run on the ABC Evening News. He farms for fun, manages high performance computing for a Research I University, lectures for graduate classes, publishes on computing, has published in newspapers and multiple magazines. He also hunts, fishes, and photographs.

Just because we're not from New York City doesn't make us stupid or our thoughts and feelings invalid.

Mike