Armed robbery at the Leica store

[logan2z]

It will come with a receipt from a dealer dated Nov 2022 with my name on it.

And an Overgaard hood. Probably not the thieves, although it does seem odd to be selling two BNIB Leica lenses right after a robbery at the local Leica store.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Probably not the thieves, although it does seem odd to be selling two BNIB Leica lenses right after a robbery at the local Leica store.

Indeed, if not the thieves, then this is the mother of all cases of poor timing.

 

[Huss]

And an Overgaard hood. Probably not the thieves, although it does seem odd to be selling two BNIB Leica lenses right after a robbery at the local Leica store.

The strangest thing, as pointed out, is apparently they were just bought, so why not return them? I did with my spare M6.

 

[logan2z]

The strangest thing, as pointed out, is apparently they were just bought, so why not return them? I did with my spare M6.

Yeah, very odd.

 

[BobUK]

They nearly caught one when he stopped to take a selfie.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

What morons... [if these are, indeed, stolen property] they should have, at least, tried selling them in some other city... like New Jersey where they could hide more easily.

I'm from New Jersey and can assure you no one here would notice. Things are always falling off of trucks

 

[wiltw]

Most likely fenced, exported to EU where it can be sold quickly at prices below the usual VAT-inflated price.

Psst...wanna buy a floor of the Salesforce building? Whattabout the top floor of the Millenium Tower, cheap.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Would a store be financially responsible if you wound up purchasing stolen property from them that they may not have known was stolen either?

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

I suppose actions will depend on where the buyer is located? If the buyer is not in USA, different law would I apply I guess.


Marcelo

 

[Donald Qualls]

Would a store be financially responsible if you wound up purchasing stolen property from them that they may not have known was stolen either?

If a business (like KEH, for instance) buys and sells used goods, it's their responsibility (under law, most places) to exercise due diligence to avoid reselling stolen goods. Pawn shops, for instance, in many/most jurisdictions, are required to report all significant purchases and pawns to local police, including identifying features (serial numbers, etc.) for comparison against databases of reported-stolen property, and to hold received items for some period of time to allow this process to be completed.

If you've ever watched Pawn Stars on TV, you'd have seen a few shots in their back room where they hold items after purchase -- this is why they do this.

If a purchased item is found to be stolen, the pawnbroker (or used equipment reseller) takes a loss for what they paid, but police receive the information the seller gave (this is why you can't sell anything of consequence to such a business without providing identification) and in theory follow it up. I got a handgun back this way once (after two years in a police evidence room -- trials and appeals take time). Unless the used goods dealer was found to have violated requirements, or has a habitual issue with stolen goods, they're unlikely to see legal action -- and it's quite bad enough they'll have taken a loss on the deal.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I'm from New Jersey and can assure you no one here would notice. Things are always falling off of trucks

Is that a phenomenon which only occurs in New Jersey, because it is not common in the rest of the world? Or are you saying that truck drivers are theives?

 

[Eric Rose]

Why do you care? You will never see these cameras in the US. They are already in a container(s) going to Asia, Europe and the Middle East.

 

[Mike Lopez]

Here come the $10 Leicas

You win the internet for today, sir.

 

[madNbad]

Why do you care? You will never see these cameras in the US. They are already in a container(s) going to Asia, Europe and the Middle East.

Eric is correct. Local thieves wouldn't be targeting the Leica Store, they would be at Best Buy stealing boxes of GoPros. Worldwide demand for luxury goods supplied by organized groups supported with both drugs and money. When someone steals a Lamborghini, it doesn't pop up on eBay Autos.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

If a business (like KEH, for instance) buys and sells used goods, it's their responsibility (under law, most places) to exercise due diligence to avoid reselling stolen goods. Pawn shops, for instance, in many/most jurisdictions, are required to report all significant purchases and pawns to local police, including identifying features (serial numbers, etc.) for comparison against databases of reported-stolen property, and to hold received items for some period of time to allow this process to be completed.

If you've ever watched Pawn Stars on TV, you'd have seen a few shots in their back room where they hold items after purchase -- this is why they do this.

If a purchased item is found to be stolen, the pawnbroker (or used equipment reseller) takes a loss for what they paid, but police receive the information the seller gave (this is why you can't sell anything of consequence to such a business without providing identification) and in theory follow it up. I got a handgun back this way once (after two years in a police evidence room -- trials and appeals take time). Unless the used goods dealer was found to have violated requirements, or has a habitual issue with stolen goods, they're unlikely to see legal action -- and it's quite bad enough they'll have taken a loss on the deal.

That was the point I was trying to make about eBay. Just what are their legal responsibilities? If I buy something that I have to return to the original owner at my financial loss because it was stolen, does eBay bear any responsibility? I'm not referring to criminal liability but civil liability to reimburse my loss.

 

[BrianShaw]

That was the point I was trying to make about eBay. Just what are their legal responsibilities? If I buy something that I have to return to the original owner at my financial loss because it was stolen, does eBay bear any responsibility? I'm not referring to criminal liability but civil liability to reimburse my loss.

Ebay has several informational pages on this topic, all of which basically say that they do not support the trade of stolen or illegal goods but if it happens it's between the buyer and police. They offer help, though, which seems limited to providing whatever information they may have to the police..

Stolen property policy

The sale of stolen property is not allowed on eBay.

www.ebay.com

Customers - Security Center | eBay.com

Customers - Security Center

pages.ebay.com

As mentioned before, the buyer of stolen goods, when they are seized and/or returned to the ir rightful owner leaves the buyer in a financial loss. Civil lawsuits, of course, could be filed but good luck with that. It is likely that some evidence of direct complicity in the illegal aspects of the deal would be needed to prevail. If they, eBay, were unaware that the goods were stolen then it seems that the unknowing buyer gets stuck with the loss. More likely, it should be the seller who get's sued in an attempt to recover the funds paid to that seller.

 

[Sirius Glass]

That was the point I was trying to make about eBay. Just what are their legal responsibilities? If I buy something that I have to return to the original owner at my financial loss because it was stolen, does eBay bear any responsibility? I'm not referring to criminal liability but civil liability to reimburse my loss.

There is a similar problem if you buy a stolen item from a brick and mortar store.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Ebay has several informational pages on this topic, all of which basically say that they do not support the trade of stolen or illegal goods but if it happens it's between the buyer and police. They offer help, though, which seems limited to providing whatever information they may have to the police..

Stolen property policy

The sale of stolen property is not allowed on eBay.

www.ebay.com

Customers - Security Center | eBay.com

Customers - Security Center

pages.ebay.com

As mentioned before, the buyer of stolen goods, when they are seized and/or returned to the ir rightful owner leaves the buyer in a financial loss. Civil lawsuits, of course, could be filed but good luck with that. It is likely that some evidence of direct complicity in the illegal aspects of the deal would be needed to prevail. If they, eBay or the seller, were unaware that the goods were stolen then it seems that the unknowing buyer gets stuck with the loss.

A reason to buy new stuff from reputable dealers or at least to ask for the original sales receipts from sellers.

When I sold my car using Craig List and a popular used car sales site, both sites told me to be careful of selling to out-of-state buyers. I was even told to not accept certified checks as often those are phony forgeries. Once you turn the car over and give them the title, good luck trying to find them if the certified check bounces. So I sold to a local buyer and would only accept cash. We met in a bank where the manager gave us an office there where we signed off all the papers and I deposited the cash into my account before I left and turned the title over. They had the car, keys, and title, and I had my cash.

 

[Sirius Glass]

A reason to buy new stuff from reputable dealers or at least to ask for the original sales receipts from sellers.

When I sold my car using Craig List and a popular used car sales site, both sites told me to be careful of selling to out-of-state buyers. I was even told to not accept certified checks as often those are phony forgeries. Once you turn the car over and give them the title, good luck trying to find them if the certified check bounces. So I sold to a local buyer and would only accept cash. We met in a bank where the manager gave us an office there where we signed off all the papers and I deposited the cash into my account before I left and turned the title over. They had the car, keys, and title, and I had my cash.

Selling anything that is expensive private party carries risks that one, as you did, should be mitigated.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Selling anything that is expensive private party carries risks that one, as you did, should be mitigated.

How do people buy and sell expensive camera equipment? I've bought lenses for a few hundred dollars. But I would be very hesitant to sell or buy a very expensive camera set unknown through eBay or PenPal or whatever.

 

[Sirius Glass]

How do people buy and sell expensive camera equipment? I've bought lenses for a few hundred dollars. But I would be very hesitant to sell or buy a very expensive camera set unknown through eBay or PenPal or whatever.

I was referring specifically to cars. For most photographic equipment I buy things through a dealer or Photrio.

 

[MattKing]

Here in Canada, if it’s stolen from you... it simply isn’t yours anymore.

CLOWN place.

That's strange, given how many examples I have seen of people getting their items back - as long as they haven't been sold subsequently to an innocent purchaser as part of a valid transaction.
Most frequently, those returns happen if the police get to them before they leave the hands of a stolen property fence.

 

[BrianShaw]

That's strange, given how many examples I have seen of people getting their items back - as long as they haven't been sold subsequently to an innocent purchaser as part of a valid transaction.
Most frequently, those returns happen if the police get to them before they leave the hands of a stolen property fence.

So what’s the law on that in Canada. If a stolen item is sold it no longer is rightfully owned by the person it was stolen from?

 

[Pieter12]

I once had a motorcycle stolen from me. And then I saw it parked at the local dealer. I had made some modifications and recognized the bike right off the bat, still hd the key on me and it fit the ignition lock. I reported it to the police, they went down and arrested a kid who worked there. It turned out they had been trying to nail him for a few robberies but his parents wouldn't let them search the house. Unfortunately for me, although the frame numbers matched my title, the kid had swapped out the engine for one that had the numbers filed off. Since both numbers didn't match my title, the judge wouldn't release the bike to me, and the insurance ended up paying for it. Probably a good thing, because that bike could well have ended up killing me. It was a rocket.

 

[lecarp]

The real crime is the price of a new Leica!