Arista Edu Ultra and green (VERY GREEN) developer

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Laurent

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Just a -maybe- dumb question: I just developed a 120 roll of Arista Edu Ultra 400 (long name, isn't it?) in HC110 dilution "H".

Everything seems OK, including my practice of loading on a steel reel (first 100% success!!!), but the developer turn a beautiful green at the end of the 11 minutes...

Is it something usual for this film? It's a roll I was given, and for the time being my only roll of this brand.

So I'm just curious, but maybe I'll learn something?
 

runswithsizzers

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Several films leave the developer (or pre-soak, if you do that) one color or another. This is normal, and nothing to worry about.

Recently Kodak Tri-X in 120 has left a very green color in my pre-soak water. T-Max 400 can be pink. Something poured off very blue, was it Foma?
 
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Often, coloration of solutions is a result of the anti-halation dyes coming out. I usually pre-soak B&W unless using a developer that specifically recommends against it, and it will generally come come out in the pre-soak. I've seen all kinds of colors in different film doing this-a lot of films will turn the pre-soak purple, but I've also seen magenta and green.

Sometimes you don't see this in developer if it's the first thing to touch your film. Most developers are fairly basic in pH, and it could be a case of the pH affecting the color of the AH dye or it could be the dye not being soluble in solutions of that particular pH(in which case you should see the dyes come out somewhere else in the process).

I'm pretty sure Arista at least use to be made by Foma. I just put together a decent sized order from Freestyle, and reading between the lines I got the impression that maybe they were switching to Kentmere for at least some of the films? Don't hold me to that...but sometimes on films of unknown origin a distinctive color here can give you a clue as to the manufacturer.
 

btaylor

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Foma, which I believe the Arista rebadge had been for some years, leaches out a brilliant green color into the liquid that hits it first, either the pre soak or developer. I have read it’s the anti halation layer. Totally normal.
 

Andrew O'Neill

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Bright green? That's like the CatLABS 80 I've been using. I don't like my XTol-R turning green, so a pre-wash is in order whenever I use that film.
 

AnselMortensen

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Foma 100 = teal green.
CatLabs X80 = teal green.

Hmmm...coincidence? I think not. 🤨
 
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cmacd123

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Many films (particularly with eastern Euopean Origin) like to colour the developer, I agree that it is the Anti-Halo coating on the back of the film disolving.

Arista brand has been very careful to use a new name for each source of film that they have labeled for them.

Arista EDU Ultra in all three speeds is made in the Czech republic By Foma Bohimia. for a time they did have some marked "Made in Canada" which was Foma Film packed by the only firm in Canada that does a booming business in repacking film. My understanding was the Foma was having difficulty in getting metal Cartridges.

their is now a new 35mm film called Arista EDU DX, only sold in Cartridges which is generaly assumed to be Kentmere. (both 100 and 400)
 
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Laurent

Laurent

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Thanks for your replies!

I,m using one shot developer so was not concerned, but definitely curious about this.
The negs look very nice, which is what matters (esp. Since this was my Drepy's first film after I cleaned the shutter)
 

koraks

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it is the Anti-Halo coating on the back of the film disolving.

It's the anti-halation dye alright, let me be clear about this. But to expand on (and perhaps rectify) two technical inaccuracies that may be present here:

1: It's not really a layer as such that dissolves. I.e. the film isn't getting any thinner and no actual part of the emulsion or thin film disappears as the anti-halation dye dissolves. It's in fact just that - a colored dye that's embedded in an emulsion layer, and during processing, the dye dissolves - while the actual emulsion layer it was part of, remains in place. This is contrary to an actual layer that is physically removed, as is the case with a remjet backing layer as found on e.g. Kodak Vision 3.

2: The anti-halation dye does not necessarily need to be on the back of the film. I think in the case of Foma, it actually is, though(both their sheet and roll films). Sheet and roll films generally have a gelatin emulsion layer on the backside (i.e. non-image side) mostly to prevent excessive curling as the film dries. During drying, a gelatin emulsion contracts and this would result in warping, which in roll & sheet film is countered by a similar gelatin layer on the backside of the film, so that the effects on both sides sort of balance out. On 135 film this isn't necessary because the film is narrower and curling is therefore less excessive. Back to the anti-halation dye: this can be embedded in the anti-curl back layer on roll & sheet films, but it's also possible (and AFAIK quite common) to embed it in a lower layer on the image side of the film, but below the image-forming layer. The advantage of the latter approach is that it can also be employed on 135 film, and it's at least in theory more effective since it blocks reflections inside the film base (cf. light piping) as well as halation that originates in reflections against the pressure plate or inner septum of the dark slide (sheet film).

The color of the anti-halation dye is variable; i.e. it varies from product to product, and moreover it can be different depending on the conditions. E.g. Foma's anti-halation dye varies from emerald green to a bluish teal depending (AFAIK mostly) on pH. This also explains why the color can be subtly different from one developer to the next.

Hmmm...coincidence? I think not.

That a similar or identical anti-halation dye is used does not mean it's the same product. It can be, but doesn't have to be. Both Ilford and Kodak B&W films can emerge with a magenta tinge from processing - this doesn't make them the same products. Most color C41 films release magenta dyes during processing, and again, this doesn't make Kodak film the same as genuine Fuji film. Etc.
 

sufnturf

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I had the same experience turning my one shot green. I did a water stop in between and "stop-washed" till I couldn't see any discolouration coming out of the tank – I wanted my fixer to stay clear.
Next time I might presoak the film.

OTOH: The colour looked like woodruff soda, reminding me of my childhood
 

sufnturf

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To be sure: the green dye does absolutely no harm to processing solutions. It doesn't interfere with development or fixing in any way.

Thank you for reminding me. I did know that but "just for the look" I wanted it clear ;-)
 
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Don_ih

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The anti-halation dye does not necessarily need to be on the back of the film. I think in the case of Foma, it actually is, though(both their sheet and roll films).

It's definitely on the back of Foma sheet film. I made the mistake of developing a sheet of Fomapan 200 in a smooth tube. After it was done, all the dye was still on the back. That was irritating.
 

koraks

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Yes, exactly, @Don_ih - I've noticed this too, many times. I sometimes use a kind of BTZS tube thingy, which tends to leave a patch of dye in place. Fortunately, the dye washes out fairly readily.
 

AnselMortensen

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I'd be curious to know if bespoke Shanghai GP3 sheet film had a teal green coloration...
That would "make the cheese more binding"... 🤨
Anybody ?
 

MattKing

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I'd be curious to know if bespoke Shanghai GP3 sheet film had a teal green coloration...
That would "make the cheese more binding"... 🤨
Anybody ?

FWIW, it is quite likely that sheet film and roll film will/may employ different approached to anti-halation.
 
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