Arg.. Random problems, Pyrocat- HD + 120 Delta

[rootberry]

I have always had great results with pcat- HD with 8x10 in a jobo, but now that I am processing 120 I have had nothing but problems! First it was with bubbles, which were easy to fix. Now I have two new problems; density buildup at the edges of the negative, and weird streaks that run parallel to the film. I don't get these problems all the time, but every other roll. My development technique is always the same, and I am very much a stickler about being consistent.

I use a patterson tank and paterson plastic reel
3min presoak

16min semi stand development, pyrocat- HD 1:1:100 at 22C, agitate first 30 seconds, twist the stick and bang the crap out of the tank, then another inversion at 8min.

Water stop for 1min

Fix for 5min in TF-4

Wash for 25min

I have tried soaking, refixing, and then a bath in hypo before re washing. This has not worked. I suspect that it could be caused by spooling the film onto the reel, but the streaks do not look like scratches. In fact, the streaks are very hard to see on the negs themselves, but show up on enlargements very visibly.. I don't know what to do about the added density at the film edges.

It seems that usually I can figure out what I did wrong, but I am still pretty new to rollfilm and "tiny cameras", so any tips of advice would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers!

Here is a scan that shows both of my problems pretty well:

 

[sanking]

I would suggest the following.

1. Agitate very vigorously for at least one full minute at the beginnng.

2. Use four instead of two agitation cycles.

3. Reverse the orientation of the reel in the tank after the 2nd and 3rd agitation cycle, if possible.

If the problem continue consider changing to stainless steel reels.

Sandy King

I have always had great results with pcat- HD with 8x10 in a jobo, but now that I am processing 120 I have had nothing but problems! First it was with bubbles, which were easy to fix. Now I have two new problems; density buildup at the edges of the negative, and weird streaks that run parallel to the film. I don't get these problems all the time, but every other roll. My development technique is always the same, and I am very much a stickler about being consistent.

I use a patterson tank and paterson plastic reel
3min presoak

16min semi stand development, pyrocat- HD 1:1:100 at 22C, agitate first 30 seconds, twist the stick and bang the crap out of the tank, then another inversion at 8min.

Water stop for 1min

Fix for 5min in TF-4

Wash for 25min

I have tried soaking, refixing, and then a bath in hypo before re washing. This has not worked. I suspect that it could be caused by spooling the film onto the reel, but the streaks do not look like scratches. In fact, the streaks are very hard to see on the negs themselves, but show up on enlargements very visibly.. I don't know what to do about the added density at the film edges.

It seems that usually I can figure out what I did wrong, but I am still pretty new to rollfilm and "tiny cameras", so any tips of advice would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers!

Here is a scan that shows both of my problems pretty well:

 

[rootberry]

I have a stainless reel, but it doesn't fit on the 'peg' that goes in the center of my patterson tank. I think you have the have that in place for the tank to remain light tight, don't you? I will try the tank + more inversions, but don't want to fog the film!

Thanks Sandy

 

[RobC]

they look like scratches to me rather than processing artefacts. Possibly from using a squeegee to get rid of water.

 

[sanking]

Yes, the film looks scratched in places. However, there is also some over development along the edges of the film.

Sandy King

they look like scratches to me rather than processing artefacts. Possibly from using a squeegee to get rid of water.

 

[gainer]

It's pretty hard to tell the difference between fact and artifact in pictures of clouds. The marks that look like scratches could be made by pressure that is not intense enough to make visible scratches in the negative but whose pressure will cause marks that develop as if they were made by light streaks. The old Kodak Autographic cameras had a window you could open and a stylus you could use to write to write by pressure through the paper backing a title or autograph which would develop on the sensitive side of the film and would show forward on the print. The sensitive surface is even more sensitive to such pressure marks. If you can spare a piece of cut film, you can try writing on its emulsion side with a paint brush handle in the dark and developing it without exposing it. Try different amounts of writing pressure to see how much it takes to make a mark as dark as you saw.

Twirling is not the best kind of agitation for intermittent agitation. The flow pattern induce maybe uneven from edge to edge of the film, especially if the agitation is "gentle". The hydrodynamics of flow are such that the fluid inertia in the main body of the film must be overcome by the drag applied to its edges by the fluid next to the reel, causing a variation in fluid velocity from center to edge of the film. The Patterson tanks I have used are amenable to agitation by inversion, and I would recommend its use, and not gently.

 

[sanking]

I

16min semi stand development, pyrocat- HD 1:1:100 at 22C, agitate first 30 seconds, twist the stick and bang the crap out of the tank, then another inversion at 8min.

BTW, I don't recommend the 1:1:100 dilution for stand or semi-stand. I would suggest a more dilution solution of about 1:1:150 or 1.5:1:200. The reason the dilute solution is better with stand development has something to do with the specific gravity of the solution in the tank and the development by-products but I can not explain it more than this. Perhaps I could get Pat Gainer or PE to comment further.

Regardless of the technical explanation you will definitely get more even development with the more dilution developer solution.

Sandy King

 

[rootberry]

Many good suggestions here. I will take them all into account and get to work! As for the possibility of scratches, I can't figure out just how they got there. I am always very careful loading/unloading the reels and I don't use a squeegee in any darkroom process.. As for agitation, I do use inversion, but twirl the stick once at the beginning of development to loosen bubbles. I think I will give 1:1:150 a go, along with more inversions. I suppose I will also need to increase development time by a little as well.

Cheers

 

[nworth]

The marks look more mechanical than processing artifacts, but it's hard to tell. Since they are black, they are not scratches. They may be pressure marks or contamination, however. Be sure the tank, reel, loading area, and your hands are clean. With stand development, you sometimes get dark marks right at the edges, near where the film touched the reels, but this certainly does not look like that problem. You might try less development time and more agitation (two inversions per 30 seconds?) and see if that improves matters. I've just started using the Patterson tank. I like it, and so far I haven't had any problems.

 

[Eric Rose]

I've had weird black lines like that before with Ilford films. Others have too and I think it was determined to be a manufacturing defect.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

What are the chances of contamination? I had very similar problems with a roll of Plus-X where I had not developed film for a while, and went on to process. As I thought back the last thing I had mixed before my film developing hiatus was fixer, and I have a feeling my problems came from residual fixer in the developer (in crystalline form, slowly de-solving while in the developer). Just like you, I have never had this problem before, and my marks looked much like yours with less density in the negative where affected.
Just another thought.

- Thomas

 

[rootberry]

Thomas, that could be a possibility. I'm almost done with a 3rd roll of 120, then I'm going to process them one at a time- trying all the great info I got from you guys. I'll make sure my mixing grads are super clean =)

Cheers