Are We Really Stuck With Ilford MGFB? Where Are the Magic Papers of the Past?

cirwin2010 said:

Fomatone I find doesn't have the highest dmax and low contrast when compared to other papers

Click to expand...

That may be a processing problem. Dmax of Fomatone is good, but you'll need to tone it (hence the name). The main limitation IMO is the paper base which is very off-white. That does cut back contrast of course, since you can't make a very bright white on a paper that's not white to begin with.

koraks said:

That may be a processing problem. Dmax of Fomatone is good, but you'll need to tone it (hence the name). The main limitation IMO is the paper base which is very off-white. That does cut back contrast of course, since you can't make a very bright white on a paper that's not white to begin with.

Click to expand...

I concur with your statement. Dmax is good, but not as great as MGFB when comparing untoned prints. At least I find this with developers such as liquidol and ansco 130. Moersch Se6 I found enhances dmax when compared to those options. It also increases contrast by about a grade bringing it more in like with MGFB in my experience.

The ivory highlights will also raise the dmin thus reducing apparently contrast and punch even if you could achieve the same dmax as MGFB. But that warm paper base is part of the appeal imo

Patrick Robert James said:

There were some great old papers. Anyone who says modern papers are better probably wasn't there or they are having memory issues.

Click to expand...

Not better, no. In some cases, definitely not as good as papers from the 1970s/80s.

In the late 80s I printed almost exclusively on Agfa Portriga Rapid. It handled images differently than anything else I tried - you could not replicate the tonality you got on Portriga Rapid on any other paper. I have some Portriga Rapid left and have made prints on it in recent years, and compared it with Ilford’s Warmtone paper, and the Ilford paper doesn’t come close to what Portriga can do, and I’m not talking about the image color - I mean tonal rendering.
Fortunately, Fomatone Classic comes very close to emulating Portriga Rapid, so that’s what I use most of the time.

I’m happy with the current Ilford offerings. Warmtone fiber has incredible depth but I prefer cooler images so I stick with classic for the most part, which I prefer to the older MGIV.

I do however miss how MGIV cooled in 1:9 selenium for 3-5min. The newer papers all just go magenta unless you add PMT to the developer or use something like Moersch SE6 Blue.

Some papers I do miss from the past: Forte polygrade V and Oriental VC. RIP

We should be thankful Ilford has continued to produce such fine papers.

Milpool said:

The good old days are often the product of a failing memory.

Click to expand...

Or fantasies about a past that never existed, fuelled by highly competent duo/tritone offset reproduction that made some prints out to be much more than they ever were in reality.

Milpool said:

There was more selection. More choice when it came to image colour and toning properties, more surface types.

Click to expand...

Only up to a point - wonder if they'd be so nostalgic if they realised that the variety of surfaces were often rather chintzy impressions of fabrics or high end mouldmade papers - and were often only available on limited (or one grade, if it was a 'portrait' paper) grades, and that some other papers had very drastic characteristic curve differences between some grades (owing to manufacturers trying to fill out the grade range on extant products - cf. Kodabromide). The other half of the mythos was simply that particular manufacturers were the first to achieve universally desirable results, like Agfa delivering a true grade 5 (by today's standards) on an enlarging paper, or Ilfobrom having a much more consistent character across grades (and such a close relationship to Multigrade that I suspect Ilford could very easily do a new Galerie if there was the market).

If @ADOX Fotoimpex can get Polywarmtone into a coating schedule (as a multigrade) that would be a big step to filling the only real gap in the market currently.

I've settled in on Foma papers when I do traditional enlargements. These days about 90% of my darkroom work is alternate methods.

Using Fomatone at the moment for prints that I intend to tone. True, contrast is poor, but the one problem I see is that the paper seems to pick up stains and "dirt". Nowhere near as robust as Ilford.

I’ve been printing on fibre based papers for over 40 years, mostly Ilford warm tone until switching to classic a few years ago. Mostly because of the price difference. For the past year I’ve been using Ilford Portfolio RC pearl. The surface sheen and slightly warm look are pleasing to me. Processing and washing are easy. Permanence is possibly a question but right now it’s my preferred paper. I know this doesn’t address the original question but thought I would mention it.

Just returning to darkroom work (contact print) after ehhh… 20 years and my biggest surprise is that contemporary photo baryta graded paper offerings are on heavy paper base - no single weight?

Vaidotas said:

Just returning to darkroom work (contact print) after ehhh… 20 years and my biggest surprise is that contemporary photo baryta graded paper offerings are on heavy paper base - no single weight?

Click to expand...

Not that I know of, no. That ship sailed long ago.

logan2z said:

I mostly use MGFB, but recently tried some Fomabrom Variant 111 and thought it was pretty good - but not dramatically better/different than MGFB.

Click to expand...

fomabrom is nice, main difference with ilford is that the latter has a bit more contrast on the highlights. And yeah, foma emulsion seems to be more delicate.

Quite a few people think MGWT is the best paper ever. It certainly is a great one. I pretty much standardize on that as well as MG Cooltone; and my only complaint is the rapid rise in price. Otherwise, I've experimented with all kinds of silver gelatin papers.

Sure, I wish that original Seagull G graded, Brilliant Bromide graded, and Portriga graded were still around; but the era of graded papers is over with, and in the meantime, really good VC papers have arisen; for me the first of those which really stood out was Polygrade IV then V. That's gone too now. Change just seems inevitable in this game. We adapt.

Nowadays I use mostly Ilford MGWT. Luckily, I bought a good supply of it many years ago before the current price hikes. Regarding papers of the past, I used Dupont Varigam, Ilford Ilfomar, Ilford Ilfobrom, Oriental Seagull, and the Zone VI graded paper. All very nice papers, but I sometimes wonder if the characteristics ascribed to these papers, at least for myself, is because I printed a lot more back in those days. Perhaps I was a better darkroom worker, then?

Milpool said:

The good old days are often the product of a failing memory.

Click to expand...

Well as long as there is no danger of anyone telling me that Gary Cooper aided by Grace Kelly in "High Noon" didn't manage to kill the bad guys, I'll be happy

pentaxuser

Negatives which were hell to print back in graded days are downright easy now on today's premium VC papers. But I'm glad I got to experience the special look of numerous papers of the past.