Are We Really Stuck With Ilford MGFB? Where Are the Magic Papers of the Past?

Hey everyone,

I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately, and I’m hoping to hear other printers’ experiences.

It feels like Ilford Multigrade FB (Classic / Warmtone) has become the only serious silver-gelatin enlarging paper that anyone uses anymore. Walk into any fine-art darkroom, talk to printers I know, check galleries, or read process write-ups… it’s Ilford MGFB across the board.

I get why: consistency, availability, archival behavior, etc. But I can’t help feeling like the paper just doesn’t have that “magic” quality that older papers had. There’s nothing wrong with Ilford MGFB, but there’s also nothing that makes me stop and marvel at it either.

When I look at older prints on papers like Oriental Seagull (the real stuff), or other classic 70s–90s emulsions, the surface just had this sparkle, the kind of depth and micro-contrast that made the blacks feel like velvet and the highlights almost shimmer. The textures were gorgeous and subtle.

By comparison, Ilford’s current glossy FB surface feels… a little dead? Flat? Lacking that micro-sheen? I find myself wishing for something that actually excites me again.

So I’m wondering:

• What are people doing now that the beautiful papers of the past are gone?
Are you coating prints with lacquer or gloss sprays to bring back some of that pop?

• Is there any paper on the market that’s truly notable besides Ilford?
Foma/Fomabrom, Adox MCC, MG Art 300 — do any of these really scratch the itch, or are we all settling?

• Has anyone moved to liquid emulsions or hand-coating their own papers?
If the commercial options are so limited, is DIY the future for people who want unique surfaces again?

• And bigger picture… when are we going to see NEW silver-gelatin papers?
Are any manufacturers actually working on something new? Or are we just going to be using the same handful of emulsions indefinitely?

I’d love to hear how people are dealing with the current landscape.
Are you happy with the available papers? Have you found workarounds? Or are you feeling the same sense of loss for those older, magical surfaces?

Looking forward to your thoughts.

eliadesqu said:

What are people doing now that the beautiful papers of the past are gone?

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Printing on Ilford MGFB. And Ilford Art, occasionally.

eliadesqu said:

And bigger picture… when are we going to see NEW silver-gelatin papers?

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The market for paper is exponentially smaller than the market for film, which has been on the verge of imploding for years. I doubt there will be any new reliable printing paper hitting the market anytime soon.

I started on mgfb and i'm now trying fomabrom v111. It's pretty good so far, it has a very deep black and i can get some very contrasty results with it. I have noticed the emulsion peeling off easily when the print is still wet, by rubbing or squeegeing the print resulting in white marks on the edge of the print. The finish is also different, it has more texture but that might have to do with me changing my process. I'm not sure about the quality control yet, haven't printed enough for it. I'm also not sure about availability outside the EU but here it's good. Overall i like it so far and it's definitely a lot cheaper then ilford mgfb.

I mostly use MGFB, but recently tried some Fomabrom Variant 111 and thought it was pretty good - but not dramatically better/different than MGFB.

I've been itching to try something different and am considering DIY coating using liquid emulsion on some sort of paper base (Arches Platine or something similar) and/or giving Ilford Art 300 a try.

DutchDarkroom said:

I have noticed the emulsion peeling off easily when the print is still wet, by rubbing or squeegeing the print resulting in white marks on the edge of the print. The finish is also different, it has more texture

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I've noticed both as well. The emulsion does not seem as durable as that of MGFB. And I'm not sold on the finish either, seems a bit more eggshell than the finish of the Ilford paper. I made a print recently on the Foma paper that looked good, but I don't think I'll use it long term.

logan2z said:

seems a bit more eggshell than the finish of the Ilford paper.

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I agree

Hi,

the paper I liked most was Agfa Record Rapid 111 in the 1990's.

Later I used Agfa MCC, but the color of it's base was too reddish for my taste.
Replaced it with Ilford MGW, a fantastic choice for warm papers today.

Not a big fan of cold tone papers, best was Guilleminot's Prestige, a paper that rich you had to take care not to overdevelope it's shadows.

Finally Ilford Galerie has to be mentioned, wonderful neutral toned paper...

Jens

The good old days are often the product of a failing memory.

There was more selection. More choice when it came to image colour and toning properties, more surface types. And it was good. But they didn’t micro sparkle or magical bla bla anything special. That’s people seeing what they want to see etc.

Very few people make silver darkroom prints anymore and it’s been that way for quite some time, so that old stuff isn’t coming back. In fact I’m surprised there are still as many Ilford papers as there are. Fotoimpex’s MCC 110 was a nice paper but isn’t economically viable for them. I’d like to experiment with Foma papers and see what’s what.

I wasn’t crazy about Ilford MG Classic when it first came out but I came to realize it is every bit as good as the papers I miss. However it’s becoming ridiculously expensive.

My favorite is Fomatone Classic, which is remarkably similar to Agfa Portriga Rapid!

The current Ilford papers are superb!

However that being said, if you want to play with a variety of surfaces inkjet is actually quite capable. I've just profiled Platine Fiber Rag for my Canon Pro-1100 and the B&W prints are very, very good. They being inkjet still lack that depth that silver prints have, but some negatives scan + print better than (I am capable of anyway) print in the darkroom.

My life's errand seems to be searching out old papers that have, hopefully been stored in good conditions.
I have had good success particularly with Ilford products particularly fibre base.
I have Ilford Gallerie and Ilfobrom in many long gone surfaces such as Velvet stipple plus Zone VI brilliant, Arista classic( actually Ilford Gallerie) Agfa Brovira FB and more.
Kodaks papers do not age well nor do some strange papers made in India!
Kentmere made some wonderful papers with some available under other labels.

I have sample booklets of Ilford and Kodak papers.
"I remember the good old days" has never been more true!!

I /love/ foma 112. It’s dead matte with a lovely tonality.

A class I took did an exercise where everyone in the class brought a couple of boxes of different papers and we all made prints with them and different developers, and foma 112 stood out immediately to me.

NortheastPhotographic said:

The current Ilford papers are superb!

However that being said, if you want to play with a variety of surfaces inkjet is actually quite capable. I've just profiled Platine Fiber Rag for my Canon Pro-1100 and the B&W prints are very, very good. They being inkjet still lack that depth that silver prints have, but some negatives scan + print better than (I am capable of anyway) print in the darkroom.

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This question is about darkroom papers....

Milpool said:

The good old days are often the product of a failing memory.

There was more selection. More choice when it came to image colour and toning properties, more surface types. And it was good. But they didn’t micro sparkle or magical bla bla anything special. That’s people seeing what they want to see etc.

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Glad someone said it.

Make the most of Ilford offerings whilst they still exist. No use pining for the past.

I only picked up darkroom printing within the last decade so Ilford is about 90% of what I've ever known. That being said, I've recently started shifting more towards Foma's various papers. They're a little cheaper and the velvet surface finish they offer is gorgeous

Frankly, it's amazing that we have the selection of papers we do. They can all be discontinued any day and 99.99% of photographers wouldn't care.

That said, I'd still like to see new packs of Polywarmtone and Ektalure.....

There were some great old papers. Anyone who says modern papers are better probably wasn't there or they are having memory issues. Not to say you can't make great prints on modern papers. ILWT is incredible for example, but older papers were different. And there were so many of them. That ain't a product of a failing memory. I still have prints I made back in the 90s on papers that are long gone. You couldn't reproduce them today, but that isn't to say you couldn't make a great print either.

I do get sad when I think about a lot of old papers. Some were special. Agfa 118, Oriental Warmtone VC, Luminos Charcoal... I could go on.

You could always make your own paper. It ain't easy but it isn't rocket science. I don't know what liquid emulsions are out there these days but in the past I've made some beautiful prints with liquid emulsion. You could even make up your own emulsion which would get you into the "it ain't easy" milieu but it is totally doable.

You also have to keep in mind film is different these days too which impacts how prints look. The silver rich films of the past are long gone.

Foma and Ilford are selling amazing papers.

What I miss is subtle surfaces. I miss Azo.

I have quite a collection of "cool stored" paper.

I love the results from the famous Forte Polywarmtone, but it was a devil to work with drydown was huge, the wonderful split tone character was really tricky to predict.

I really miss the last versions of Kodak fiber base paper. There was a cream base warm paper that was the best.

I need to get busy.

Yes. But you can make your own, it’s fun!

I never really cared for Ilford FB paper. I find the surface too glossy. I have used it on occasions for very graphic contrasty work but otherwise I prefer Fomabrom 111 which is less glossy and to my eye has a much longer grey scale.
I never had a problem with peeling emulsion either.
I also think the Fomatone MG papers (131/132) are also excellent and quite unique in relation to what Ilford have to offer.
However, no paper has surpassed Forte Polywarmtone for me. The micro tonality was impressive and dry down was never a problem.
I could get closer to the look of those vintage prints that I have seen in person with that paper more than any other.

Fomabrom 111

eliadesqu said:

Are any manufacturers actually working on something new?

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I doubt it. The film revival is really that, for the most part - people shooting film. Paper is a niche product and it's unattractive from a viewpoint of production economics, logistics, stocks etc.

If you want a lot of choice/variety in papers, inkjet is your friend.

Btw, if you're worried about B&W, consider color. For analog work, there's basically just one option, although it comes in a number of (closely related) variants.

Most of the time I print B&W in the darkroom I use Fomabrom and Fomatone. I think they're fine. Ilford MG is nicer in terms of both surface finish and how it handles the curve on lower grades, but I can't justify the much higher cost.

koraks said:

Ilford MG is nicer in terms of both surface finish and how it handles the curve on lower grades, but I can't justify the much higher cost.

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The escalating cost of Ilford MGFB is what led me to try Fomabrom 111, but I prefer the Ilford paper and will probably stick with it for now. Here in the US it’s about 15% more expensive than the Foma paper - not insignificant but I’m willing to pay the difference for the reasons you stated.