Are the Chinese dumping photo gear?

[Dali]

The way things are going at the moment it may be a good idea for us in the West to learn the Chinese language if we don't already speak it because in the next fifty years China will become the Worlds predominant power.

Just the opposite. Language is also a power (why do you think English is the predominent language used to promote the post-WW2 sub-culture?) and I will not surrender.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Do you speak..

This is why I spent 5 years living there from 1996-2001. I can speak very decent Mandarin Chinese now. And decent Spanish too. I'm set! My English sucks though

Chinglish and Spanglish?

 

[gzhuang]

Ni zai yong hai ou xiang ji ma

This is why I spent 5 years living there from 1996-2001. I can speak very decent Mandarin Chinese now. And decent Spanish too. I'm set! My English sucks though

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Ni zai yong hai ou xiang ji ma

Wo yi qian yong bu tai hao!

我 以 前 用 不 太 好!

 

[gzhuang]

Translated - Q Are you using a Seagull camera? A Used to but aint good at all!

Wo yi qian yong bu tai hao!

我 以 前 用 不 太 好!

 

[Wallendo]

What has always amazed me about Chinese entrepreneurs is their ability to make little things and sell them cheaply and still make money. I can buy replacement lens caps from Chinese sellers on eBay for a small fraction of what I would pay from a US seller. I have bought m42 adapters inexpensively, and they have been of decent quality. In short, the chinese can manufacture and profit from items "too small" to appeal to western manufacturers.

Quality products are still manufactured in the west, all of my cars are either American or German and two of them are manufactured in the US with German engines. But there seems to be little interest in industrial development and recruiting for the types of industries that flourish in China.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

What has always amazed me about Chinese entrepreneurs is their ability to make little things and sell them cheaply and still make money. I can buy replacement lens caps from Chinese sellers on eBay for a small fraction of what I would pay from a US seller. I have bought m42 adapters inexpensively, and they have been of decent quality. In short, the chinese can manufacture and profit from items "too small" to appeal to western manufacturers.

No mystery. Dig deeper and see how much the uneducated teenagers from the countryside who work in those factories that make your lens caps are paid. And see their company "housing" (picture the worst college dorm rooms you can think of, typically for two people in the west, and stuff 4 bunk beds in there) and have each of them work 12 hours a day and pretty much 7 days a week.

Nothing different than what the west did during our similar "emerging" market cycles 100-120 years ago. See Lewis Hine work.

 

[blansky]

Quality products are still manufactured in the west, all of my cars are either American or German and two of them are manufactured in the US with German engines.

Are you sure that many of the parts of those German and American cars are not made in China?

I believe that most Americans cars are actually "assembled" in the US.

 

[MartinCrabtree]

I loved getting parts for a Harley I was working on marked "Made in China."

 

[Wallendo]

Are you sure that many of the parts of those German and American cars are not made in China?

I think the cheap plastic parts that break are. Most of the heavy-duty parts are manufactured domestically (tires, wheels, alternator, transmission). The radio is probably oriental.

Also, a lot of parts are now shipped in from Mexico.

Much of the fear of the Chinese economy parallels the great economic fears of Japan in the early 80's - Japan didn't end up owning the U.S.. China's current growth is impressive, but with a population 5 times that of the U.S., their economy still has a long way to go.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

A lot of companies are having second thoughts about manufacturing in China. There's a bit of a reversal of US manufacturers coming back due to theft of intellectual property. Even without stealing other people's ideas, China has always had the ability of making quality goods. Lots of the cheap crap China makes are spec'd by clients that want a low price point. Go to any museum that have a collection of Chinese art and see ancient jade and bronze work. The name "China" comes from their ability to produce high quality porcelain for centuries.

 

[blansky]

I think the cheap plastic parts that break are. Most of the heavy-duty parts are manufactured domestically (tires, wheels, alternator, transmission). The radio is probably oriental.

Also, a lot of parts are now shipped in from Mexico.

Much of the fear of the Chinese economy parallels the great economic fears of Japan in the early 80's - Japan didn't end up owning the U.S.. China's current growth is impressive, but with a population 5 times that of the U.S., their economy still has a long way to go.

But isn't the rust belt of the US due to the fact that metal smelting and forging all went to China. I think you'll find they make a lot more than cheap plastic parts for your cars.

I'm not sure on this but I think they make almost everything. And the quality is based on what the company ordering is willing to pay. They do make quality stuff.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I think they risk implosion before achieving anything like monetary or military hegemony. They're stretched awfully thin now. China is a nation of disparate ethnic elements forcefully glued together. Here in the US our sense of history lasts about fifteen minutes. In other parts of the world they think in terms of centuries and even longer. Without trying to stir up a current controversy, when we here in the West think of the Chinese picking on Tibet, they might remember when Tibet was picking on them. But to put it another way - lots and lots of promising Chinese students are sent to the US to study. Even back when it was party policy to preach annihilation of the West, the children of their dictators were living right around here, eating American food, studying in American schools, making friends just like everyone else. It's all a very complex fluid dynamic.

 

[blansky]

I think they risk implosion before achieving anything like monetary or military hegemony. They're stretched awfully thin now. China is a nation of disparate ethnic elements forcefully glued together. Here in the US our sense of history lasts about fifteen minutes. In other parts of the world they think in terms of centuries and even longer. Without trying to stir up a current controversy, when we here in the West think of the Chinese picking on Tibet, they might remember when Tibet was picking on them. But to put it another way - lots and lots of promising Chinese students are sent to the US to study. Even back when it was party policy to preach annihilation of the West, the children of their dictators were living right around here, eating American food, studying in American schools, making friends just like everyone else. It's all a very complex fluid dynamic.

Yes but don't the majority go back home to take up positions there.

As for military hegemony, in the interview from Charlie Rose I posted a few pages back, the gentleman there maintains that China is not interested in becoming another Russia in terms of world influence, but instead wants control of its region and he states that China has never wanted to be a world power per se, but just wants to have the ability to influence the Asian region. So in that sense they are not imperialistic in the way the west was in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries.

Obviously all if this is unknown and since as you say the students that learn here and go back home are going to want a more open society and the party structure is going to be challenged to some degree.

The Charlie Rose interview is actually worth wading through.

 

[Xmas]

But isn't the rust belt of the US due to the fact that metal smelting and forging all went to China. I think you'll find they make a lot more than cheap plastic parts for your cars.

I'm not sure on this but I think they make almost everything. And the quality is based on what the company ordering is willing to pay. They do make quality stuff.

The reason there are no USA camera manufacturers is the Ja cameras were better and cheaper.
My iPhone is made in Ch, my WiFi/4G modem designed and made in Ch.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Your query, Blansky, is actually a little more complex. I've been in a sit-down or two with at least one of the steel commodity traders. It is
actually more expensive to bring steel in because you have to ship our own scrap steel halfway across the world, then pay to ship it all back in usable form. Doesn't make sense whatsoever unless you are in fact a commodities trader and get rich doing exactly this! There are really only about a dozen or so people who monopolize the entire commodity of scrap steel. It's all gamed. But due to supply disruptions due to the long supply chain, real or alleged costly quality issues (like in the Bay Bridge bolt fiasco), and targeted tariffs, things are starting to change. But anyone who thinks our own steel industry collapsed merely to competition doesn't know the key factors. It was deliberately killed off, just like numerous other domestic manufacturing concerns. These guys really are like "sharks" and don't give a damn about anyone or anything other than their own wallet.

 

[DREW WILEY]

We're hopscotching here, Blansky. You raised another question while I was answering the one about steel. Some of the deliberate hope about interdependent trade, despite the trade deficit, is that it brings about a very high degree of not only technological but personal traffic between the two countries. In the case of China, this has certainly completely changed how younger generations perceive the West. It still might be a one-party country, but it isn't Stalinist anymore. Mao is out, free enterprise and a relatively open intellectual environment is in. Nixon was correct on this one. And this is also what is moulding the current policy with Iran, whose urban majority and younger generation are quite pro-Western, even if the regime is not. Nobody has a crystal ball, and I think I'm more a realist than a pessimist when I believe some kind of catastropic world war is inevitable at some point. There are just too many titanic environmental, demographic, and ideological stresses going on. Something has to eventually crack. But in the meantime, even if China has a very aggressive espionage program in high
gear trying to steal both our military and industrial/tech secrets, they are also as a people and even govt quite friendly to the US in many
ways. And like I've already noted, many of their intellectual cream of the crop are being educated here, esp by the UC system. Most of these people are quite progressive and very open to Western ideas in general.

 

[DREW WILEY]

And replying to my Giant Cat Friend ... Yes, the flood of junk coming into the US has basically been mandated by US corporations themselves,
who have been largely hijacked by a culture of cynicism with zero pride in product, zero patriotism, and zero loyalty to anyone except (briefly) the stockholders, but ultimately, their own golden parachute. I'm a professional buyer. This is the world I have to live in until I retire. Any buyout or merger of any publicly-traded mfg corp generally spells its doom. Its akin to scorched earth, slash-and-burn agriculture: you get a real impressive crop for a season or two, and then nothing of value ever grows there again. It can happen to tech industries too. My wife was doing DNA work for a thriving twenty-year-old mid-sized biotech firm, but all her stock options collapsed when they decided to go public and the giant vulture capitalist company who ended up controlling most the shares managed to sink them in only
six months by overextending their own unrelated investments. At the same time, the founder of the company who wanted to go public in
order to expand his operation suddenly found himself in the position of an employee, and became the first person fired!

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Huge number of top Chinese cadres have citizenship and passports in the west too now. Why do you suppose that is? In fact it's the topic of many Chinese discussion forums who are wondering why this is so and calling these people unpatriotic. I think it's very telling to see what the "insiders" are thinking by their actions...

 

[DREW WILEY]

One thing I find interesting is their films, which can certainly be beautifully photographed - quite refreshing compared to all the Hollywood
whizz/bang/exploding digi teenage action flicks. But you can always identify the exact decade a Chinese film was made by who the allowable heroes and villians are. When the old party was just stating to loosen up and at least allow films, it was favorable to make slightly pre-revolution Chinese culture (like the 1930's) appear to be more like two centuries before, with the oppressive spoiled upper classes practicing rampant concubinage etc. Picking on the Japanese invaders of WWII is always popular, but if the heroes who come to the rescue are all wearing little green caps with red stars on them, and the Nationalist army is lazy and decadent, you can pretty much surmise the era of the film. Now you're stating to see films where stiff Maoist town bosses are cast in roles of rapists and thugs, so that pretty much tells you that the ethos of the Cultural Revolution and its ideological purity are dead as a doornail.

 

[MattKing]

We in Canada still make a lot of the parts used in automobiles assembled in North America.

Not as many as before, but ..

 

[blansky]

Huge number of top Chinese cadres have citizenship and passports in the west too now. Why do you suppose that is? In fact it's the topic of many Chinese discussion forums who are wondering why this is so and calling these people unpatriotic. I think it's very telling to see what the "insiders" are thinking by their actions...

Not sure on this but weren't a lot of these people from Hong Kong who were buying up real estate in Canada and the west. Trying to protect their money when Hong Kong again became Chinese territory in 1999.

Even if it's not them, I'm sure the nouveau riche from China are trying to protect themselves from the whims of the communist party much like the Russian nouveau riche always have insecurities about the whims of Putin.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Not sure on this but weren't a lot of these people from Hong Kong who were buying up real estate in Canada and the west. Trying to protect their money when Hong Kong again became Chinese territory in 1999.

Even if it's not them, I'm sure the nouveau riche from China are trying to protect themselves from the whims of the communist party much like the Russian nouveau riche always have insecurities about the whims of Putin.

No, this is now. As in being discussed online this week.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

This too:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/02/0...chinese-buyers-head-to-new-yorks-suburbs.html

 

[Xmas]

Not sure on this but weren't a lot of these people from Hong Kong who were buying up real estate in Canada and the west. Trying to protect their money when Hong Kong again became Chinese territory in 1999.

Even if it's not them, I'm sure the nouveau riche from China are trying to protect themselves from the whims of the communist party much like the Russian nouveau riche always have insecurities about the whims of Putin.

Don't see why you pick on Putin as example eg the Hungarian revolt in '56 was NATO inspired and funded?
Yes he is sheltering a whistler that the Ch rejected...