Are newspaper photography self-destructing?

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guangong

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One look at social media and the sub-literate who inhabit it should dissuade anyone of any ideas that "everyone can be a reporter"...god help society if we rely on the average dope - with no ethical or professional responsibilities, standards or accountability - to deliver news.

It is evident from recent examples from the NYT, CNN and NBC that a great many “professional “ journalists lack any ethical standards regarding their responsibilities and accountability. Many also seem to be either sub-literate and unread or dishonest.
 
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It is evident from recent examples from the NYT, CNN and NBC that a great many “professional “ journalists lack any ethical standards regarding their responsibilities and accountability. Many also seem to be either sub-literate and unread or dishonest.
News outlets including cable and newspapers biasly write for their readers. They've made a determination that it's more important to maintain readership than provide honest news. Look up NY Times or Washington Post articles and then survey the comments. You will find 90-95% of the comments liberally biased. That's who read their papers. So they slant the news that way. Part of it is just that the reporters have political and social views that just get applied to the articles and the way they are presented. That's why they have lost credibility with the public. But it's always been like that. Just worse recently.
 

Colin Corneau

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I love all these people who never have worked for a professional media outlet pontificate on the sins of the industry.

Rest assured they are held far more accountable for their words than the current President. Sadly, "bias" these days now just means "people who say things I personally disagree with".
 

jtk

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News outlets including cable and newspapers biasly write for their readers. They've made a determination that it's more important to maintain readership than provide honest news. Look up NY Times or Washington Post articles and then survey the comments. You will find 90-95% of the comments liberally biased. That's who read their papers. So they slant the news that way. Part of it is just that the reporters have political and social views that just get applied to the articles and the way they are presented. That's why they have lost credibility with the public. But it's always been like that. Just worse recently.

It's worth remembering that NY Times and other "Liberal" voices appeal to literate people...unlike media targeted at some "other" side...such as Fox, Washington Times (alleged newspaper), and tweets by POTUS.
 

RattyMouse

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News outlets including cable and newspapers biasly write for their readers. They've made a determination that it's more important to maintain readership than provide honest news. Look up NY Times or Washington Post articles and then survey the comments. You will find 90-95% of the comments liberally biased. That's who read their papers. So they slant the news that way. Part of it is just that the reporters have political and social views that just get applied to the articles and the way they are presented. That's why they have lost credibility with the public. But it's always been like that. Just worse recently.

I find the Washington Post extremely credible.
 

Eric Rose

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Our local media is about as vanilla as you can get. They only report on local events that are "given" to them. Either by the local authorities, community associations or individuals (special interest groups). They seemed to be afraid of doing any real investigative journalism. Heck they might loose their free tickets to Flames games or the Stampeders. Might loose their cozy connections with the local police or municipal mandarins. To fill up the airtime or printed pages we get endless stuff about car crashes in Alabama, house fires in Toronto, lost kittens in Australia and other "filler". I want to know what's going here, in Calgary, not in Toronto, Alabama or Australia. But that would take effort and money. The media would actually have to hire real journalists not just someone who can take something off the "wire" and fit into a column on the 3rd page or have it typed into a teleprompter.

There is absolutely no digging for stories in this town. None. Where are the journalists investigating city hall for corruption and rampant waste? Where is the reporting on police brutality or lack of effective policing? Where are the hard hitting stories on our out of control gangs in Calgary. How about the influx of East Indian gang members from the lower mainland in BC? Where is the reporting on that? How about the white supremacy movement in Alberta and Calgary? They are arming themselves to the teeth and doing military style exercises. Again the media is totally absent.

On top of all that they keep telling us "listen to us, you can trust us". Trust you to do what? Report accurately on information given to you by the very people you should be investigating and holding accountable?

Well I'm sorry I have no trust in our local media. NONE! They don't deserve a penny from me or my time watching their polished faces on TV. They haven't earned my money or attention.
 

juan

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I worked in the news business for years. Back in the 80s, the accountants took over and reporters and photographers were no longer considered assets. They became expenses. Management cut back on both to the detriment of the only thing local media had to sell - local news. After digital photography became good enough, newspapers began taking submissions from the public. In one town where I lived, the paper actually solicited photos from the camera club. The amateur photographers were thrilled to appear in the paper and never thought about getting paid. The papers were able to lay off more photographers.
 

Sirius Glass

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I worked in the news business for years. Back in the 80s, the accountants took over and reporters and photographers were no longer considered assets. They became expenses. Management cut back on both to the detriment of the only thing local media had to sell - local news. After digital photography became good enough, newspapers began taking submissions from the public. In one town where I lived, the paper actually solicited photos from the camera club. The amateur photographers were thrilled to appear in the paper and never thought about getting paid. The papers were able to lay off more photographers.

In the 80's accountants and attorneys infected all industries and damaged everything they touched. In the aerospace industries they only made decisions on short term profit and destroyed all long term considerations. "Heck who needs research and development, bedrock assets, and writing proposals for new business when we can raise the stock price in the short term and destroy the company in the long term. We do not care because we will dump the stock when it starts to tank."
 

MattKing

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In the 80's accountants and attorneys infected all industries and damaged everything they touched.
Accountants and attorneys (lawyers) generally do what their clients request of them. The change in values that has led to all the negative effects you refer to came from investors - those who wanted the short term profits at the expense of all other sorts of profits.
And they were supported by governments whose tax policies reward them further.
 
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It's worth remembering that NY Times and other "Liberal" voices appeal to literate people...unlike media targeted at some "other" side...such as Fox, Washington Times (alleged newspaper), and tweets by POTUS.
Since when did literate people become unbiased? That seems to be an interesting belief about mankind. Does selection of which photos are used biased or unbiased? Are photos literate or illiterate? If the NY Times puts a photo or article supporting it's political viewpoint on page 1 and a similar photo supporting a point of view it disagrees with on pg 47, are they acting literate and biased or literate and unbiased? I think you need to re-think your point of view. We all tend to believe the people and organizations we agree with. That's why we read or watch them.
 

jtk

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[QUOTE="...We all tend to believe the people and organizations we agree with. That's why we read or watch them.[/QUOTE]

The "we" you refer to is your own special reality. That you don't like NY Times is your personal problem. Literacy is important to civilization, it isn't a "liberal" phenomenon.

"unbiased" is a red herring. We (most of us) read for information and perspectives, not for a talk radio notion of"bias."

However, I'm looking forward to unbiased photos of today's unregistered Turkish and Russian agents when they're perp walked.

Avedon required that his subjects agree to his control of negatives...the subjects (e.g. Billy Graham) would get the portraits their PR required, and for his own "liberal" purposes Avedon would print the reality he saw for his books. .
58249307_1_x.jpg


Here's an unbiased portrait of somebody else:

th
 
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Colin Corneau

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I worked in the news business for years. Back in the 80s, the accountants took over and reporters and photographers were no longer considered assets. They became expenses. Management cut back on both to the detriment of the only thing local media had to sell - local news. After digital photography became good enough, newspapers began taking submissions from the public. In one town where I lived, the paper actually solicited photos from the camera club. The amateur photographers were thrilled to appear in the paper and never thought about getting paid. The papers were able to lay off more photographers.

And this is the story that's been repeated at outlet after outlet, for literally decades now.

Media owners have destroyed any value in their properties...and now wonder why audiences are stampeding for the doors the second they have options (they never did for years). Well, if the owners don't believe in the value of what they produce, why would anyone else??

Eric Rose makes a good point - there's some great people working (still) for media outlets, but they're now doing 2, 3 or more jobs -- no time for deeper institutional knowledge or effort with that scenario. Many outlets just don't have nearly enough people to do what audiences want them to do - dig deeper, produce material no one else is, and really reflect their communities on a deeper level...clickbait and cute puppies are cheap and less effort to do, so that's what we get. And the stampede continues.

The maddening part is greedy conglomerates here, having burned through their own money from decades of poor decisions, now look to be getting public money from the federal government...crying 'poor us' and bellowing about how invaluable they are to democracy and the public good. Total bullshit, their views on the public good were made clear when they decimated staff levels and awarded themselves bonuses instead. Disgusting con artists, all of them.
 

JBrunner

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This has been a good thread. It's received a couple of reports where it has swayed a bit towards making personal political statements.

I think this is a very important discussion. Of course the subject involves politics. I would not like to see it sent down to the soapbox, so please keep personal politics out of the discussion as much as possible.

Thanks in advance..
JB
 
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Arklatexian

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This has been a good thread. It's received a couple of reports where it has swayed a bit towards making personal political statements.

I think this is a very important discussion. Of course the subject involves politics. I would not like to see it sent down to the soapbox, so please keep personal politics out of the discussion as much as possible.

Thanks in advance..
JB
Haven't the big city newspapers in the U.S. and maybe all of North America. especially when the owners owned papers in several cities, always been biased one way or the other? To me, that was the point of Orson Wells' "Citizen Kane" movie from the 20th Century. Nothing, really, has changed. The difference is: we are alive today and most were not back then.......Regards!
 

trendland

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Since I retired early from news photography some time ago, the few people I still know who are active in the profession, tell me things are really dire, and they can't wait to get out. The obsession with "celebrity" that afflicts the media seems to have resulted in younger photographers who are invariably "paparazzi
orientated"......running around like panicky headless chickens squirting off ten frames a second on their digis.

The thoughtful, discreet kind of photographer is no longer wanted...it's all "up in yer face" flash on camera rubbish.

If newspaper editors think this is what people want, then how come newspaper circulation continues its steady decline into almost certain eventual oblivion?

And since the "digital revolution"....so many punters are sending in pictures to magazines etc., for free, that some don't even want to pay for professional pictures anymore.

Is this happening in other countries apart from the UK too?...I suspect it is in some form or other.
I've been reported about the "workflow" of a news photographer during a press conference. He was the very last one - as he arrived the conference came short to its end. The room was full of reporters and photographers. So he was standing at the opened door of the press room.
He took his digital camera above the heads of all other persons and made a fast series of min. 60 frames within a couple of seconds. Without looking throug his camera/his monitor !
Then he said : "finished" and left the conference.
WELL DONE FROM MY POINT...! If you are regarding the motivation and the todays earnings of such guys.
Perhaps he should look foreward to better jobs!

with regards

PS : The quality standard in press photography ? It has never been existant from my point.
EXEPTION : World press photo!
And the press photography of some photographers during 30th - late 50th but today? ???? No way!

with regards
 

jim10219

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Haven't the big city newspapers in the U.S. and maybe all of North America. especially when the owners owned papers in several cities, always been biased one way or the other? To me, that was the point of Orson Wells' "Citizen Kane" movie from the 20th Century. Nothing, really, has changed. The difference is: we are alive today and most were not back then.......Regards!
Yup. Many historians have argued that if it weren’t for the biased sensationalizing of Joseph Pulitzer’s “New York World”, and William Randolph Hurst’s “New York Journal”, the Spanish-American War would never have happened. Or going back further, the American Revolution would have had a hard time getting off the ground without the biased news papers of the time rallying support for self governance. I’d be willing to bet most of our wars relied on biased a news media to enrage the public enough to stomach the idea of sacrificing their sons and daughters to a cause that almost certainly would not have directly effect them. Or at least wouldn’t have effected them on a daily basis nearly as much as losing a loved one.

In any case, all sectors of business see drastic changes over time. The photo journalist is far from the only job out there to be in a state of reduction on its way to virtual elimination. I mean, does your town even have a professional blacksmith, cooper, farrier, cordwainer, milkman, elevator operator, switchboard operator, clockwinder, lamplighter, etc. As the saying goes, “evolve or die”.
 

chip j

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Would SOMEBODY please give a list of the "great, contemporary photographers & artists" who don't post on APUG?? I'd like to visit their websites and see what's so great. I warn you--I have a BA in Art History and have studied Art all my Life.
 

trendland

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Would SOMEBODY please give a list of the "great, contemporary photographers & artists" who don't post on APUG?? I'd like to visit their websites and see what's so great. I warn you--I have a BA in Art History and have studied Art all my Life.
 

trendland

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Would SOMEBODY please give a list of the "great, contemporary photographers & artists" who don't post on APUG?? I'd like to visit their websites and see what's so great. I warn you--I have a BA in Art History and have studied Art all my Life.
A "BA" in .......xy is just nice but sometimes not necessary.
Here is my list (No Apug member of course) : - Andreas Gursky !
681071_mobil_1oFtGJ_FVlCWF.jpg

"If you want it you have to pay a little more than 99 cent"
with regards
 

Colin Corneau

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Great contemporary photojournalists? It's not hard to find.

Pete Souza.
Gary Hershorn
Barbara Harrison
David Guttenfelder
Ami Vitale
Peter Turnley
Louis Palu

...and many more.
 

jim10219

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Would SOMEBODY please give a list of the "great, contemporary photographers & artists" who don't post on APUG?? I'd like to visit their websites and see what's so great. I warn you--I have a BA in Art History and have studied Art all my Life.
Great contemporary photographers AND artists? Or are you looking for photojournalists? Because generally speaking, you won't find great art in a photojournalism. You'll find some good photographers with an artistic eye for sure, but as far as fine art goes, it's not the place to look. Nor should it be. They are two different fields with two different goals made for two different audiences. Besides, if you have a BA in Art History, shouldn't you be providing us with that list? I have a BFA and keeping up with the latest trends is pretty important. I would think art history would be the same. What's going on in the modern art scene is effected by what preceded it, and conversely, what's happing in the modern art scene effects our perception of past artists.

In any case, as for painting, I'm a big fan of the New Leipzig School, particularly Neo Rauch. Of course, Kehinde Wiley is blowing up huge right now, taking Banksy's place as the latest artists to become a household name, and I like his work as well. For a mix between photography and painting, I really like the work of Gerhard Richter. As for modern photographers, my favorites are probably Andreas Gursky (of course), Alec Soth, and Peter Fredrick and his tempra prints (though he's passed on now, so is he still contemporary? Doesn't matter to me because I just recently discovered his work). There are many, many others. Google can list thousands for you if you want.
 

rpavich

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I love all these people who never have worked for a professional media outlet pontificate on the sins of the industry.

Rest assured they are held far more accountable for their words than the current President. Sadly, "bias" these days now just means "people who say things I personally disagree with".
I don't have to work for a newspaper to see bias. That's ludicrous. I can read.
 
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