are black and white photographers vain, all this talk about archival image making

cowanw

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Well I would argue with an MFA unless I were doing an exam marked by them. After all one expects an academic to be, well, academic. Talbot says he invented his initial process in 1835 and announced it in 1839. This was a salt print paper negative, or photogenic drawing, which was a printing out process. By 1849 he had recognized the latent image and announce a completely different process, the Calotype, a paper negative which was a developing out process. The positives were made using his earlier process, the salt print, although they were called transfers in the 1840's. The word Talbotype was used in place of the word Calotype in 1841, to emphasize the patent ownership of the process.
I suppose it is possible if a calotype negative is printed on a salted paper print that it might be descriptively called a calotype print or a salt print and a talbotype, or anything else one may wish to call it. However if one really wants to communicate properly one needs to use words that have a common meaning. Once the concept of "a word means precisely what I choose it to mean", then in order to communicate one must find others who agree with your meaning of words; a difficult hurdle.
a calotype negative with a albumin print or a silver gelatin print may as easily be called a calotype as well.
It is not just the confusion of naming. Calotype positive prints of calotype negatives were made and are very different looking from salt prints made from calotype negatives. Even if most people do not care, an MFA academic teacher should care!
 

Bill Burk

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I have no trouble identifying a “Rayotype” when I see it.
 

Bill Burk

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I just don’t want to worry about cross-contamination... Also giving test strips the full treatment gives me spotting palettes.

As for densitometer geekery, for Father’s Day I asked for another Marshall Studios densitometer and I am restoring it today. When it opens, I will be running to the hardware store for a new electric cord and light bulb.
 

Theo Sulphate

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... I've read several books about the history of paper: "Paper, paging through history" by Mark Kurlansky is a good one....

Thanks for the reference; I will look for it.


...
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funny thing is, 25-30 in jet prints labelled and boxed
with the index, and sketch map and cd of images takes up more space than 25-30 4x5 contact prints and 4x5 films, sketch and index.
...

Where are these items actually stored? Would it be too extreme to imagine an underground vault, dark and cold, something to withstand a social apocalypse?

By the way, nice avatar.
 

jtk

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Sorry to have to point this out : HABS et al are merest government agencies. They have zero to do with archival storage of images produced by "normal" , commercial, or artistic photographers.

Who actually thinks a government agency should store our images? Who actually WANTS that? Sounds very Soviet.

Most of us are aware of the potentially eternal nature of "photos" stored on line, such as those posted daily in Media...and Facebook.

That anyone (such as a government agency) stores images and documentation intended to be "archival" in boxes, and has trouble scanning 8X10 film speaks for itself. Sony can quickly and easily do the job without wasting cardboard boxes.

For context: the first goal of the Human Genome Project was expected, by government agencies like HABs et al, to take over a decade. It turned out that a single multizillionaire was able to beat that expectation without taxpayer money within three years. He had electricity, indoor plumbing, and computers... and wasn't burdened by government employees.
 

eddie

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HABS is a project to document the history of this nation. As such, the government is probably the best choice for storage and distribution of the images. If it were done privately, no doubt visual documentation of our history would be monetized a la Getty.
 

Bill Burk

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Ah yes, a friend's daughter was photographed by a Getty photographer... Her mom can't just print them out. I think they wanted 80 dollars apiece for her to have pictures of her own daughter.
 

jtk

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Ah yes, a friend's daughter was photographed by a Getty photographer... Her mom can't just print them out. I think they wanted 80 dollars apiece for her to have pictures of her own daughter.


So sad! The evil of capitalism strikes again!

Why couldn't that photographer have been a taxpayer-paid government drone?
 

jtk

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I see! So you've learned this nation's history from the government via HABS? I foolishly thought I'd learned history by reading accounts by actual historians... private citizens !
 

faberryman

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I see! So you've learned this nation's history from the government via HABS? I foolishly thought I'd learned history by reading accounts by actual historians... private citizens!
None of whom did anything remotely like HABS. It is beneficial to get your history from a variety of sources. Tends to give you a more balanced view.
 

jtk

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Maybe it'd be more useful if Google ran it.

How much do you personally use that government archive? I'd trust the New York Times a lot further.
 

eddie

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I see! So you've learned this nation's history from the government via HABS? I foolishly thought I'd learned history by reading accounts by actual historians... private citizens !
Actually, the value of what HABS is preserving will be more useful in coming years. The photos will be available to historians far into the future, without having to pay Getty et al for access to the material. Those "private citizen historians" will benefit from the efforts.
I do see why you're so smug on the subject, though. As a vocal acolyte for the " superiority" of digital, the fact that HABS may not agree with your position must be abhorrent to you.
 

Sirius Glass

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That does not solve the problems of memory with memory decay if the media is not refreshed, change of operating systems, change of storage format, ... . Search the APUG archives for reams of information on the lack of digital archive-ability. Also look at the loss of the Moon Surveyor Photographs taken before the first Lunar landing due to lose of computer tape players and the types of computers that could run the software. Yes we all know that Micro$oft never changes any formats.
 
OP
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Sorry to have to point this out <...>

i am well aware of who runs it and what it does, how to and who to submit to and the requirements ...

yup, but also measured drawings and technical research papers &c
 
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NB23

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The Habs are the Montreal Canadiens.
 

RalphLambrecht

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photographer's fade before their photographs do but 500 years is very optimistic. a well-processed B&W photograph ,however, should have a life expectancy(LE) of roughly 100-200 years in excellent storage conditions; the art is not to make it last long; the art is to make it worth looking at it for that long and there is no recipe for that!
 
OP
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words of wisdom !
yeah, that is why i should ditch all those test prints and strips if i haven't already, they have no business being saved !
 

michr

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Why this talk of the archival qualities of properly fixed and toned black and white photographs? Because photographers who use film and print in the darkroom are still digging for something to distinguish their preferred process from digital imaging and printing. That's all. They don't spend much time talking up the archival qualities of color prints for instance.

An image stored digitally can be reprinted at any point in the future. Prints made in the future might even look better than those made today due to advances in printing technology. Since this is information being stored instead of an artifact, it's conceivable, but unlikely, that a digital image could last until the heat death of the universe.
 
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