I just don’t want to worry about cross-contamination... Also giving test strips the full treatment gives me spotting palettes.hi, its me, the OP of this old thread....
i still archivally wash everything, i still perma wash everything i still take care and do things right ... probably out of habit not vanity ...and when i
make retina prints and sun prints if i open the dark drawer 1 month or 1 year or 1 day later and the images are still there on the paper i am secretly happy they didn't vanish
... I've read several books about the history of paper: "Paper, paging through history" by Mark Kurlansky is a good one....
...
...
funny thing is, 25-30 in jet prints labelled and boxed
with the index, and sketch map and cd of images takes up more space than 25-30 4x5 contact prints and 4x5 films, sketch and index.
...
i am aware of the issues at the habs office ( having submitted habs jobs for nearly 30 years )
they do not accept digital files for several reasons
1. a digital 4x5 or 8x10 back is prohibitively expensive, and they want unmanipulated files, not photoshopped dslr files.
2. the digital medium is still in its infancy and it is not archival and they don't want to lose files important to our national heritage.
currently they accept film and silver prints and / or film and ink jet prints on a special paper.
state and local planning departments SHPO offices mostly accept digital files and ink prints
not because they are archival ( although the claims they are archival came out 30 years ago
just like the 1st gen ink prints) but it is mostly a space saving exercise.
funny thing is, 25-30 in jet prints labelled and boxed
with the index, and sketch map and cd of images takes up more space than 25-30 4x5 contact prints and 4x5 films, sketch and index.
feel free to call the habs office in DC, they might be able to shed more light on the archival permanence of digital files, their staff is well trained and knowledgeable.
you can also call the LOC and ask the folks there, as well as the new england document conservation center and see what they say.
good luck with your files!
The Library of Congress is a national treasure.Who actually thinks a government agency should store our images? Who actually WANTS that? Sounds very Soviet.
Ah yes, a friend's daughter was photographed by a Getty photographer... Her mom can't just print them out. I think they wanted 80 dollars apiece for her to have pictures of her own daughter.HABS is a project to document the history of this nation. As such, the government is probably the best choice for storage and distribution of the images. If it were done privately, no doubt visual documentation of our history would be monetized a la Getty.
Ah yes, a friend's daughter was photographed by a Getty photographer... Her mom can't just print them out. I think they wanted 80 dollars apiece for her to have pictures of her own daughter.
HABS is a project to document the history of this nation. As such, the government is probably the best choice for storage and distribution of the images. If it were done privately, no doubt visual documentation of our history would be monetized a la Getty.
The Library of Congress is a national treasure.
None of whom did anything remotely like HABS. It is beneficial to get your history from a variety of sources. Tends to give you a more balanced view.I see! So you've learned this nation's history from the government via HABS? I foolishly thought I'd learned history by reading accounts by actual historians... private citizens!
HABS is a project to document the history of this nation. As such, the government is probably the best choice for storage and distribution of the images. If it were done privately, no doubt visual documentation of our history would be monetized a la Getty.
Actually, the value of what HABS is preserving will be more useful in coming years. The photos will be available to historians far into the future, without having to pay Getty et al for access to the material. Those "private citizen historians" will benefit from the efforts.I see! So you've learned this nation's history from the government via HABS? I foolishly thought I'd learned history by reading accounts by actual historians... private citizens !
This lecture was presented at the 3D Digital Documentation Summit held July 10-12, 2012 at the Presidio, San Fransisco, CA.
Archive of Digital Data for HABS, HAER, and HALS
"The NPS creates a variety of documents and records, such as inventory and monitoring plans, drawings, photographs, and conservation treatment records, to assist in the planning, management and preservation of cultural resources. Most of these, including many of 3D digital documentation products, are permanent records under the NPS Records Retention schedule, requiring the NPS to preserve them in some form. In addition, under NPS Director’s Order 19, cultural resource management records are mission critical, required for the management of the cultural resources within our parks, and must be permanently preserved. Programs such as HABS/HAER/HALS create large amounts of electronic data, such as point clouds, CAD files, and digital field photographs that constitute valuable field data permitting the verifiability of the final documentation.
Electronic records, particularly laser scanning and imaging technologies, present long-term preservation and storage challenges. Even technologies that allow for a file format with an open standard, such as a point cloud conversion to ASCII, are still problematic because of inadequate IT infrastructure within that does not facilitate storage, migration and retrieval of digital data. Moreover, the Library of Congress (LOC), which houses traditional print HABS/HAER/HALS documentation and is the sole repository designated in the National Historic Preservation Act for engineering and architectural documentation produced for Sections 106 and 110 compliance, has collections policies prohibiting proprietary software and storing of data directed at a limited audience that would prevent the inclusion of many of the products being discussed at this summit.
Despite on-going efforts for several years, resolving these issues has proven problematic. The LOC and HABS/HAER/HALS are jointly exploring born digital equivalents to large-format film photography that is currently required to meet Secretary of Interior Standards, but the lack of standards within the commercial photography community as well as the high cost of large-format digital capture and storage makes writing standards difficult. Likewise, the lack of industry standards for technologies such as laser scanning, and the reliance on proprietary software and file formats, discourages the LOC from accepting these files into its collections. Because of this, HABS/HAER/HALS uses laser scanning as a tool to create traditional print drawings on vellum or mylar that can be permanently preserved at LOC, rather than producing laser scans as an end product in and of itself. HABS/HAER/HALS also is consulting with the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) to determine if some of these file types can be preaccessioned into the Electronic Records Archives (ERA). Currently the file formats that can be preaccessioned are extremely limited, but we hope that NARA can accommodate more in the future. With no other public repository for these files, NPS has few alternatives but to maintain its own digital records and confront the technological and financial challenges this presents. NPS has no IT preservation system in place to prevent the gradual decay of storage media over time and the corruption of electronic files, also known as bit rot. Creating a digital storage system modeled on Open Archive Information System (OAIS), which runs file integrity checks to guard against data loss, would require a significant investment in infrastructure and money at a time when the NPS is facing a multi-billion dollar maintenance backlog for its historic structures.
In sum, 3D digital documentation can produce some exciting products that were not previously possible, but we must recognize that the challenges associated with digital preservation put all of these products at risk unless we find solutions that permit their responsible and economical curation and preservation."
In other words (maybe), this government agency is unable to store certain images digitally because it lacks the technical capability and is burdened by government regulations and it's own existing (2012) limited awareness and practices.
In 2012 (when this doc was written) it wasn't even aware that Sony would for theatrical presentation (not just popular distribution) digitize Lawrence of Arabia, revealing startlingly more detail than could be seen in the distributed 70mm prints.
The solution to "bit rot" involves multiple backups on multiple media (HD, tape, thumb drives, DVD, cloud etc etc) tc...but govt agencies are stuck with regulations and political interests that prevent obvious solutions. As well, of course, they avoid the most obvious solutions, which boil down to mass distribution.
Sorry to have to point this out <...>
yup, but also measured drawings and technical research papers &cHABS is a project to document the history of this nation. As such, the government is probably the best choice for storage and distribution of the images. If it were done privately, no doubt visual documentation of our history would be monetized a la Getty.
photographer's fade before their photographs do but 500 years is very optimistic. a well-processed B&W photograph ,however, should have a life expectancy(LE) of roughly 100-200 years in excellent storage conditions; the art is not to make it last long; the art is to make it worth looking at it for that long and there is no recipe for that!chemical based black and white photographers are fixated on a lot of things
from getting beautiful full scale images, to the perfect combination of grain and sharpness and bokeh
to getting positive vibes from using old and new beautiful cameras that could probably be in a museum somewhere
but they are also fixated on archival quality of images.
some say if procesed correctly a black and white fibre ( and maybe rc ) prints can last 500 years.
unless the images are in a public or private archive or museum why do we care if our photographs are able to last hundreds, or some say close to 1000 years.
are we vain ? are our photographs that interesting that they will dodge the dumpster and make it to the future ?
im guilty of some of the things ive mentioned, i like using old junk cameras, i like making photographs i like to make
and some of them make it to the library of congress or state archives, some of it to a pile on the darkroom shelf,
even though theyare archival i am not quite sure teh ones on the shelf will dodge teh dumpster.
why do you make archival photographs ?
I hate the HabsThe Habs are the Montreal Canadiens.
photographer's fade before their photographs do but 500 years is very optimistic. a well-processed B&W photograph ,however, should have a life expectancy(LE) of roughly 100-200 years in excellent storage conditions; the art is not to make it last long; the art is to make it worth looking at it for that long and there is no recipe for that!
But I’m a N.Y. Rangers fan.The Habs are the Montreal Canadiens.
i don't know the particulars but as far as i know the library of congress in the national archives.T
Where are these items actually stored? Would it be too extreme to imagine an underground vault, dark and cold, something to withstand a social apocalypse?
thanks !By the way, nice avatar.
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