Hi All,
This post is to keep you in the loop on some huge changes being implemented next week. My apologies for the short notice, but my freelancer has a rare block of 3 days available and it’s an opportunity for us to finally get this work done. You may already be aware of the changes from the previous forum discussion here:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
If you are interested, you can have a look through the above thread and the most recent updates. Most of that will be summarized below though.
Short version:
We are migrating APUG.ORG, DPUG.ORG & what used to be Hybridphoto.com to a single new website named Photrio.com. This will take place around Aug. 11-12th. You will not need to do anything with your APUG account and your existing login will continue to work. Any previous APUG traffic will be redirected to Photrio.com
Looooong version + Q&A section:
This is such a huge change for us. I will try to cover everything I can think of; sorry if it’s a bit long winded:
Around Aug. 11th we will be migrating to a new entity Photrio (still under my ownership and run under Photrio Ltd). We will also be migrating DPUG.ORG and what was once regarded as HYBRIDPHOTO.COM into Photrio as well.
Photrio will be a new photography/imaging discussion community that will focus on the three main photographic workflows which are Analog, Hybrid and Digital. The Photrio system has been extensively custom coded to allow members to completely disable or enable the 3 main workflow areas as they see fit. For example, if you want a 100% Analog site (like APUG) simply disable "Hybrid" and "Digital" areas, or you can use any combination of workflow preferences to tailor your content, or enable them all for a single unified site. As seen in this screenshot, these main content switches are located to the right of the Photrio logo:
Q & A:
How long will the migration take?
This has been months in development and the migration will be a huge undertaking. If things go to plan we're looking at 3 days of down time, but it could drag on for 4-5 days, worst case. During the migration, APUG will remain running with a single migration discussion forum so members can post during the migration, and the APUG chatroom will also be open. Should the migration fail then APUG will be re-opened and we'll re-visit the migration at a later date. So far with our testing we don't anticipate any issues.
Am I going to have to re-learn how the new site works?
Not at all, it's nearly identical to the current build of APUG in most ways. I've made sure that everything is familiar in design and function. The main difference is a slightly different looking header area, but the forums and everything else will feel the same as before.
Why are we doing this!? "If it ain't broke don't fix it!!?".
The reality is that behind the scenes, yes, it is "breaking" so to speak. APUG faces the same financial challenges as other 100% 'analog' entities out there. The statistics of our site have begun to prove that our isolation is a poor long term solution for our survival. I'm convinced we can be part of something larger yet still retain our existing analog focus and base. If we remain isolated I believe we will fade into obscurity and eventually, have to close the site. We face a decline in subscribers as more members opt for all encompassing photo communities, social media options (facebook, instagram, etc) and generally expect free content. Photrio will allow us to reach a larger audience yet retain and grow our existing analog repository. We can then leverage the hybrid and digital areas of Photrio for new members, partnerships, and advertising to supplement the overall community. As for advertising, analog advertising will remain the same in all analog areas, where we continue to support 'Mom & Pop' analog companies. Ads in the hybrid digital areas will target that market and be non-invasive (no pop-ups, etc). Hopefully, we will also obtain some new subscriber support from the expanded areas. If all goes well, Photrio may be able to hire staff, fund original content, attend trade shows, run our own conventions and much more. The supplemental model we are moving towards, has been proven to work. Think of the once 100% analog companies still in business today because they added hybrid and digital options to their product lines. Many of them would not be here today otherwise.
Will we still be known as "APUG" or "DPUG" within Photrio?
This is one of the most difficult decisions I have had to make regarding these changes. APUG has of course built a well-known brand over the years, and we've no doubt built a passionate and loyal user base, even referring to themselves as "APUGers". As much as I LOVE our brand and what we achieved, I no longer have the luxury of keeping a brand going at all costs. I am now more concerned about providing a strong platform for analog photography, maintaining/adding to our archives and helping to keep analog photography alive. APUG did an incredible job of this for a decade, but with a rapidly changing on-line space and photo/imaging market, we must be flexible and evolve or we will become irrelevant. I know the life long friends I have made through APUG are not because of a name, brand or website url, it's because of our meeting place and all that we share together while participating here.
Initially, Photrio was envisioned as a host for three individual website entities APUG, HYBRIDPHOTO, DPUG. However, the more I tried to make this work, the more confusing the site layout became. Also, we do not want newcomers to be confused over previous brands and namings. Due to this, I decided the only viable option was to move away from the branding of past sites APUG, HYBRIDPHOTO, DPUG and use more generic terms instead: ANALOG, HYBRID, DIGITAL, thus making Photrio a venue for these photographic workflows. This keeps us from tripling up on existing forums. So instead of 3 forums:
Analog Photographers
Hybrid Photographers
Digital Photographers
We can have a single forum:
Photographers
When posting top level content to such a 'multi-workflow' forum (new thread) you select which workflow applies (analog, hybrid, digital, none).
click to enlarge:
Some forums will be 100% analog, hybrid, digital, or none, and therefore will not require a designation. Also, regular replies, comments and typical posts require no designation, that is only for top level content. The more general forums will be multi-use. "But what if I don't want to see Hybrid or Digital stuff in the "Photographers" forum?" -easy, if you have disabled Hybrid and Digital in the Photrio site header as shown:
click to enlarge:
...then you will only see analog related posts in the multi-workflow "Photographers" forum.
Why the focus on 3 workflows, when the final result is all that matters?
All photographers participate in a journey to the final result. In my view, most photographers settle into a workflow which suits them best and they tend to spend most of their technical focus there. The internet is no doubt saturated with content and it can be overwhelming. Photrio gives photographers an easy way to add additional focus to their photographic methods and exchange information with other photographers engaged in similar methods. With one click a Photrio member that prefers a 100% analog workflow, can remove all hybrid and digital content from Photrio and focus strictly on what works best for them which is 100% analog. If a Photrio member is 100% digital, they can disable analog & hybrid, which creates for them a 100% digital community. They no longer scroll through hundreds of new posts, images, content of any kind unrelated to what they are focused on. Yes, there are some options to manually adjust every single forum and content section by hand but this can be cumbersome vs. the simple custom content management system of Photrio controlled in the site header. There will still be options for extreme fine tuning of all content should you prefer that.
"Bah! This is a money grab, all you care about is making money off this scheme and us!"
Over the years there has been some chatter that with 80,000 registered members I must be rolling in cash. Nothing could be further from the truth. A very small amount subscribe to APUG, roughly 1.2% of the total registered number are subscribing at this point, a reduction from previous years. Also, that number is total registrations since day one, not active accounts. I don't mind being extremely transparent regarding my finances. Anything of high value in my life (house, etc) I have due to previous years as a consultant with IBM. We live very simply, my wife and I even share 1 small vehicle and have a small 3 bedroom home in New Zealand. I have other side projects and my wife teaches piano. All business income goes to photocentric ltd which is a combination of APUG, side projects and my wife's teaching. All business income is withdrawn every month to make ends meet. My recent income after tax was right at $30,000 USD, my wife's income is a lot less. We have children, mortgage, etc. So as you can see, if this was about the money I would have gone back to IT 10yrs ago. Thanks to my previous employment, NZ exchange rates and living a simple NZ ‘island’ life, we can get by (the last few years have been difficult though, which in turn brings us to this new direction). If Photrio can generate more revenue, sure that would be immensely helpful but I also intend to re-invest most of that back into the community. If Photrio fails I will most certainly be forced to consider moving on from the web space, but I am hopeful and feel we have very exciting times ahead.
How will we deal with content posted in the wrong areas?
This will be handled in a few ways:
-An enhanced post “report” system where you can report misplaced content which will enter into an auto-moderation when certain thresholds are met.
-A vastly expanded moderation team to detect this content and promptly move it to the appropriate area. The content selection box should do enough to guide those posting top level content.
-If we find members abusing the system and repeatedly posting off topic discussions, we will remove that content and have a word with them the same as we do now. Worst case, we'll remove their account.
Will there be an easy way to see what content is associated with a workflow?
For those who enable multiple workflows on Photrio, we will have a content tag system throughout the site. These tags can also be disabled if you find them to be annoying. A few examples with tagging enabled:
gallery images (click to enlarge):
forum lists/new posts(click to enlarge):
How will DPUG be imported? What if my DPUG name is the same as my APUG name?
We’ll do our best to get as much DPUG data as possible. Forums, posts and user accounts should not be a problem. Accounts that have duplicate names will be handled on a case by case basis (contacting the owner and merging their DPUG and APUG accounts into one, please give us some time here).
Closing thoughts:
I have actually had more support for this new direction than I expected which is encouraging. Many believe it is a win-win, where we have the ability to maintain a 100% analog community but offer additional content for those who want it. It also unifies APUG/DPUG under one user account and software which reduces costs, system complexity and moderator complexity. Over the years it has become increasingly tiring for myself, moderators and even members to enforce the 100% analog mission statement of APUG. It did make us unique, but the burden of that isolation has now caught up with us. People in the web space these days expect more options and choice, they will (and are) going elsewhere due to APUGs singular scope. Some may argue this is why people came to APUG, yet ultimately the stats do reflect this is now unsustainable. We now have the technology to create a community which allows our membership to make it what they prefer. I think this will give us a unique edge in the photo space and take us well into the future.
I've been at this for over 10yrs and have always done what I think is best for our community. I believe Photrio will help take our community forward and benefit analog photography by bringing us back into the wider world of image making. The development of Photrio has taken months and the transition may be bumpy for a few weeks, but if you stick with me, I'll continue to do my best for our community.
I hate to ask, but for those who are excited about this new direction and would like to contribute to the development costs for Photrio, you can use the "Support Us" link in the APUG menu bar to contribute. Or click here for a direct paypal link: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
This venture is currently being funded with business overdraft, credit cards and IOUs to my coder, so any contribution is greatly appreciated.
I will keep you posted as we approach the migration. I’ll leave this thread open and try to address any questions, but I do need to maintain focus on the extensive pre-migration work.
Thanks!
Sean
This post is to keep you in the loop on some huge changes being implemented next week. My apologies for the short notice, but my freelancer has a rare block of 3 days available and it’s an opportunity for us to finally get this work done. You may already be aware of the changes from the previous forum discussion here:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
If you are interested, you can have a look through the above thread and the most recent updates. Most of that will be summarized below though.
Short version:
We are migrating APUG.ORG, DPUG.ORG & what used to be Hybridphoto.com to a single new website named Photrio.com. This will take place around Aug. 11-12th. You will not need to do anything with your APUG account and your existing login will continue to work. Any previous APUG traffic will be redirected to Photrio.com
Looooong version + Q&A section:
This is such a huge change for us. I will try to cover everything I can think of; sorry if it’s a bit long winded:
Around Aug. 11th we will be migrating to a new entity Photrio (still under my ownership and run under Photrio Ltd). We will also be migrating DPUG.ORG and what was once regarded as HYBRIDPHOTO.COM into Photrio as well.
Photrio will be a new photography/imaging discussion community that will focus on the three main photographic workflows which are Analog, Hybrid and Digital. The Photrio system has been extensively custom coded to allow members to completely disable or enable the 3 main workflow areas as they see fit. For example, if you want a 100% Analog site (like APUG) simply disable "Hybrid" and "Digital" areas, or you can use any combination of workflow preferences to tailor your content, or enable them all for a single unified site. As seen in this screenshot, these main content switches are located to the right of the Photrio logo:
Q & A:
How long will the migration take?
This has been months in development and the migration will be a huge undertaking. If things go to plan we're looking at 3 days of down time, but it could drag on for 4-5 days, worst case. During the migration, APUG will remain running with a single migration discussion forum so members can post during the migration, and the APUG chatroom will also be open. Should the migration fail then APUG will be re-opened and we'll re-visit the migration at a later date. So far with our testing we don't anticipate any issues.
Am I going to have to re-learn how the new site works?
Not at all, it's nearly identical to the current build of APUG in most ways. I've made sure that everything is familiar in design and function. The main difference is a slightly different looking header area, but the forums and everything else will feel the same as before.
Why are we doing this!? "If it ain't broke don't fix it!!?".
The reality is that behind the scenes, yes, it is "breaking" so to speak. APUG faces the same financial challenges as other 100% 'analog' entities out there. The statistics of our site have begun to prove that our isolation is a poor long term solution for our survival. I'm convinced we can be part of something larger yet still retain our existing analog focus and base. If we remain isolated I believe we will fade into obscurity and eventually, have to close the site. We face a decline in subscribers as more members opt for all encompassing photo communities, social media options (facebook, instagram, etc) and generally expect free content. Photrio will allow us to reach a larger audience yet retain and grow our existing analog repository. We can then leverage the hybrid and digital areas of Photrio for new members, partnerships, and advertising to supplement the overall community. As for advertising, analog advertising will remain the same in all analog areas, where we continue to support 'Mom & Pop' analog companies. Ads in the hybrid digital areas will target that market and be non-invasive (no pop-ups, etc). Hopefully, we will also obtain some new subscriber support from the expanded areas. If all goes well, Photrio may be able to hire staff, fund original content, attend trade shows, run our own conventions and much more. The supplemental model we are moving towards, has been proven to work. Think of the once 100% analog companies still in business today because they added hybrid and digital options to their product lines. Many of them would not be here today otherwise.
Will we still be known as "APUG" or "DPUG" within Photrio?
This is one of the most difficult decisions I have had to make regarding these changes. APUG has of course built a well-known brand over the years, and we've no doubt built a passionate and loyal user base, even referring to themselves as "APUGers". As much as I LOVE our brand and what we achieved, I no longer have the luxury of keeping a brand going at all costs. I am now more concerned about providing a strong platform for analog photography, maintaining/adding to our archives and helping to keep analog photography alive. APUG did an incredible job of this for a decade, but with a rapidly changing on-line space and photo/imaging market, we must be flexible and evolve or we will become irrelevant. I know the life long friends I have made through APUG are not because of a name, brand or website url, it's because of our meeting place and all that we share together while participating here.
Initially, Photrio was envisioned as a host for three individual website entities APUG, HYBRIDPHOTO, DPUG. However, the more I tried to make this work, the more confusing the site layout became. Also, we do not want newcomers to be confused over previous brands and namings. Due to this, I decided the only viable option was to move away from the branding of past sites APUG, HYBRIDPHOTO, DPUG and use more generic terms instead: ANALOG, HYBRID, DIGITAL, thus making Photrio a venue for these photographic workflows. This keeps us from tripling up on existing forums. So instead of 3 forums:
Analog Photographers
Hybrid Photographers
Digital Photographers
We can have a single forum:
Photographers
When posting top level content to such a 'multi-workflow' forum (new thread) you select which workflow applies (analog, hybrid, digital, none).
click to enlarge:
Some forums will be 100% analog, hybrid, digital, or none, and therefore will not require a designation. Also, regular replies, comments and typical posts require no designation, that is only for top level content. The more general forums will be multi-use. "But what if I don't want to see Hybrid or Digital stuff in the "Photographers" forum?" -easy, if you have disabled Hybrid and Digital in the Photrio site header as shown:
click to enlarge:
...then you will only see analog related posts in the multi-workflow "Photographers" forum.
Why the focus on 3 workflows, when the final result is all that matters?
All photographers participate in a journey to the final result. In my view, most photographers settle into a workflow which suits them best and they tend to spend most of their technical focus there. The internet is no doubt saturated with content and it can be overwhelming. Photrio gives photographers an easy way to add additional focus to their photographic methods and exchange information with other photographers engaged in similar methods. With one click a Photrio member that prefers a 100% analog workflow, can remove all hybrid and digital content from Photrio and focus strictly on what works best for them which is 100% analog. If a Photrio member is 100% digital, they can disable analog & hybrid, which creates for them a 100% digital community. They no longer scroll through hundreds of new posts, images, content of any kind unrelated to what they are focused on. Yes, there are some options to manually adjust every single forum and content section by hand but this can be cumbersome vs. the simple custom content management system of Photrio controlled in the site header. There will still be options for extreme fine tuning of all content should you prefer that.
"Bah! This is a money grab, all you care about is making money off this scheme and us!"
Over the years there has been some chatter that with 80,000 registered members I must be rolling in cash. Nothing could be further from the truth. A very small amount subscribe to APUG, roughly 1.2% of the total registered number are subscribing at this point, a reduction from previous years. Also, that number is total registrations since day one, not active accounts. I don't mind being extremely transparent regarding my finances. Anything of high value in my life (house, etc) I have due to previous years as a consultant with IBM. We live very simply, my wife and I even share 1 small vehicle and have a small 3 bedroom home in New Zealand. I have other side projects and my wife teaches piano. All business income goes to photocentric ltd which is a combination of APUG, side projects and my wife's teaching. All business income is withdrawn every month to make ends meet. My recent income after tax was right at $30,000 USD, my wife's income is a lot less. We have children, mortgage, etc. So as you can see, if this was about the money I would have gone back to IT 10yrs ago. Thanks to my previous employment, NZ exchange rates and living a simple NZ ‘island’ life, we can get by (the last few years have been difficult though, which in turn brings us to this new direction). If Photrio can generate more revenue, sure that would be immensely helpful but I also intend to re-invest most of that back into the community. If Photrio fails I will most certainly be forced to consider moving on from the web space, but I am hopeful and feel we have very exciting times ahead.
How will we deal with content posted in the wrong areas?
This will be handled in a few ways:
-An enhanced post “report” system where you can report misplaced content which will enter into an auto-moderation when certain thresholds are met.
-A vastly expanded moderation team to detect this content and promptly move it to the appropriate area. The content selection box should do enough to guide those posting top level content.
-If we find members abusing the system and repeatedly posting off topic discussions, we will remove that content and have a word with them the same as we do now. Worst case, we'll remove their account.
Will there be an easy way to see what content is associated with a workflow?
For those who enable multiple workflows on Photrio, we will have a content tag system throughout the site. These tags can also be disabled if you find them to be annoying. A few examples with tagging enabled:
gallery images (click to enlarge):
forum lists/new posts(click to enlarge):
How will DPUG be imported? What if my DPUG name is the same as my APUG name?
We’ll do our best to get as much DPUG data as possible. Forums, posts and user accounts should not be a problem. Accounts that have duplicate names will be handled on a case by case basis (contacting the owner and merging their DPUG and APUG accounts into one, please give us some time here).
Closing thoughts:
I have actually had more support for this new direction than I expected which is encouraging. Many believe it is a win-win, where we have the ability to maintain a 100% analog community but offer additional content for those who want it. It also unifies APUG/DPUG under one user account and software which reduces costs, system complexity and moderator complexity. Over the years it has become increasingly tiring for myself, moderators and even members to enforce the 100% analog mission statement of APUG. It did make us unique, but the burden of that isolation has now caught up with us. People in the web space these days expect more options and choice, they will (and are) going elsewhere due to APUGs singular scope. Some may argue this is why people came to APUG, yet ultimately the stats do reflect this is now unsustainable. We now have the technology to create a community which allows our membership to make it what they prefer. I think this will give us a unique edge in the photo space and take us well into the future.
I've been at this for over 10yrs and have always done what I think is best for our community. I believe Photrio will help take our community forward and benefit analog photography by bringing us back into the wider world of image making. The development of Photrio has taken months and the transition may be bumpy for a few weeks, but if you stick with me, I'll continue to do my best for our community.
I hate to ask, but for those who are excited about this new direction and would like to contribute to the development costs for Photrio, you can use the "Support Us" link in the APUG menu bar to contribute. Or click here for a direct paypal link: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
This venture is currently being funded with business overdraft, credit cards and IOUs to my coder, so any contribution is greatly appreciated.
I will keep you posted as we approach the migration. I’ll leave this thread open and try to address any questions, but I do need to maintain focus on the extensive pre-migration work.
Thanks!
Sean
) would, since day one, find only analogue content and avoid a rash.