"Apug International Annual Weegee Shootout"

[DBP]

ROFL! I am laughing out loud just imagining what I would ever do with one of them!

My friends think I'm totally wacko using a 30yo Canon rangefinder with (>>SHOCK<<) film instead of going digital like all of the other lemmings.

The more I think of this, one place I want to shoot to try this look is at a big annual costume thing in February, and actually, I would not look out of place walking in there carrying a camera that's bigger than a toaster!

I suppose if Jackie K/O could drive one, I could to!

Oh well ... I really don't know what else I would use something like that.

I'm pretty sure Jackie used a 2x3 - which is closer to the size of a Dagwood sandwich than a toaster. For that matter, even the 4x5 is smaller than a toaster, closed anyway. Wonder if you could toast bread with a Graflite?

 

[Dave Wooten]

OK, now I'm going to be awkward. I have seen pictures of Wee Gee, even got an idea of the kind of work he did, but are we going to do this on a specific date, and do we cover a specific subject or does it have to be something vaguely 'journalistic'?

Euan

Probably best to "do your own thing" in the street....

I was thinking of having a month say in the near future for a concentrated effort for all to collect images, and post.....present time to collect equipment and practice procedure etc...get your moves down...then you can be confidently obnoxious...it will be an awakening for some, an eye opener, probably change some careers....put some big images up on the wall and take the blame for them...

 

[Ole]

.. and can i use glass plates?

If you do, I'll sacrifice one or two as well.

Slavich glass plates, from retro photographic, in my case; I don't have a hand-holdable 13x18cm camera at present.

 

[Dave Wooten]

.. and can i use glass plates?

go for it...I just picked up an unopened box of plates....don t have a plate holder yet though.

 

[Sjixxxy]

to be a "purist" is ones choice....the idea is "in the street press type format-wee gee era" and use sheet film---

I'd vote for the large gear only just to keep things honest. So many little differences that make it harder/easier to get certain shots.

However, if anything smaller 2x3 or larger single sheet press camera were to be used, there should be some honor system guidelines to make it as close to the experience as possible.

Things like.

- Must drop camera form face & wait X amount of second between shots. To simulate the time needed to change film, recock shutter if its not an auto, and change flashbulbs etc. Make you pick the shot.
- No TTL focusing. Learn how far away six feet is form you, and shoot wide open to simulate shooting f/8 on 4x5.
- Strap weights to the camera to get the bulk up standards. Don't worry, it'll help work against the shake.
- Roll a 100 sided Die after each shot, just to make up for the much more possible, "opps, I had this open when I did that, or closed that before doing this" factor of losing a shot due to the complete lack of dummy proofing in the equipment.
- Have a friend along constantly standing two feet in front of you asking about your gear to simulate strangers.

 

[MattCarey]

I'm pretty sure Jackie used a 2x3 - which is closer to the size of a Dagwood sandwich than a toaster. For that matter, even the 4x5 is smaller than a toaster, closed anyway. Wonder if you could toast bread with a Graflite?

There is a famous picture of her with what looks like a pacemaker-series (pacemaker or crown)--but that is different than her actual camera.

I hope this link works, but this is the camera
http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset+Tre...969BB-BEDC-43A0-A030-AEBB20EF2550}&type=Image

Looks like a baby-speed. Probably Anni.


I tried a google images search for the picture with the pacemaker. You can see it in the search results
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q= jacqueline kennedy camera&sa=N&tab=wi

but the site that is referenced is not avaliable.

Matt

 

[df cardwell]

There are eight million stories in the Naked City... and this one is getting weirder by the moment.

Count me in.

And you REALLY DO want to shoot flash bulbs.

.

 

[Kino]

OK, time to brush up on guide numbers and such.

This all reminds me of the time I watched a press photog shooting High School Football for a local rag in Healdton, Oklahoma, fumble around while changing the film in a roll film back on his Crown Graphic. Unplugging the "potato masher" Honeywell Strobonar from his huge 45 volt DC, waist battery pack, he absent-mindedly looked around for a place to deposit the cord, trying briefly to stuff it into his front shirt pocket only to have it pop back out, when he absentmindedly popped the AC-style plug into his mouth to hold it.

Wait for it...

Yes, much jerking and gyration ensued and he went stiff as a board and fell over. When his co-photogs saw what was happening (yes HS football generated press coverage statewide in Oklahoma in the 1960's), a nearby man jerked it out of his mouth and helped him up onto his feet where he stumbled back out to his car, a wet spot rapidly spreading out from the center of his groin.

So, kiddies; the moral of the story is, "if you're gonna shoot with the big stuff, don't go sucking on the wires".

Frank

 

[df cardwell]

Ooh, baby.

Flash bulbs can be a LOT more fun !

.

 

[dmr]

Ok, maybe some stupid Weegee questions here ... I'm trying to learn a bit more about what he used, and I admit I'm kind of ignorant about the large format stuff, particularly that used 50 years ago.

What kind of film would Weegee use? (Yeah, B&W, I know {duh}.) Seriously, would it be something like Super-XX? Would it be ortho? I know he did use some infrared, but what would he use for regular shooting? About what ASA/ISO?

And those flash bulbs? I know they were about the size of a small regular light bulb. Does anybody know about how powerful they were in modern terms, like about what guide number at ASA/ISO 100 would something like that have?

Hope these aren't really dumb questions. Thanks in advance.

 

[DBP]

Ok, maybe some stupid Weegee questions here ... I'm trying to learn a bit more about what he used, and I admit I'm kind of ignorant about the large format stuff, particularly that used 50 years ago.

What kind of film would Weegee use? (Yeah, B&W, I know {duh}.) Seriously, would it be something like Super-XX? Would it be ortho? I know he did use some infrared, but what would he use for regular shooting? About what ASA/ISO?

And those flash bulbs? I know they were about the size of a small regular light bulb. Does anybody know about how powerful they were in modern terms, like about what guide number at ASA/ISO 100 would something like that have?

Hope these aren't really dumb questions. Thanks in advance.

Fast film in the 40s was about Weston 80 (ISO 100). By the mid 50s Tri-X was available, at the same speeds as now (200 under the initial ASA scale, then 400). As for the flashbulbs, my flashbulb sliderule covers Nos. 50, 22, 31, 11, 5, 6, 50B, 22B, and SM. It was made in '46, so I'll have to adjust by a stop to eliminate the safety factor in the original ASA standard. But I would be happy to give the guide numbers for a given combination of bulb, film speed, and shutter speed.

 

[Dave Wooten]

Wee Gee 101

An Archive of Wee Gee photos and bio-history etc...there won t be a quiz...check out the site below.. (there are over 40 photos here....IMHO Diane Arbus received more than a wee bit of inspiration from Wee Gee!)

www.amber-online.com/gallery/exhibition46

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Weegee in the later days was probably using Kodak Super Panchro Press B, which was a 200 speed film. I think Efke PL100 at EI 200 in Acufine has the right look, put probably isn't as grainy as Panchro Press B.

For night shots he used IR film and IR flashbulbs, which he called "invisible light." He said he always shot Fiorello LaGuardia with "invisible light," because he didn't like flashbulbs.

I don't have my big Norman barebulb flash here in Moloka'i, so the little Metz unit that I keep around for fill flash will have to do. I do have the Linhof and plenty of PL100 on hand, but won't be able to process it for over a month.

 

[ricksplace]

OK, time to brush up on guide numbers and such.

This all reminds me of the time I watched a press photog shooting High School Football for a local rag in Healdton, Oklahoma, fumble around while changing the film in a roll film back on his Crown Graphic. Unplugging the "potato masher" Honeywell Strobonar from his huge 45 volt DC, waist battery pack, he absent-mindedly looked around for a place to deposit the cord, trying briefly to stuff it into his front shirt pocket only to have it pop back out, when he absentmindedly popped the AC-style plug into his mouth to hold it.

Wait for it...

Yes, much jerking and gyration ensued and he went stiff as a board and fell over. When his co-photogs saw what was happening (yes HS football generated press coverage statewide in Oklahoma in the 1960's), a nearby man jerked it out of his mouth and helped him up onto his feet where he stumbled back out to his car, a wet spot rapidly spreading out from the center of his groin.

So, kiddies; the moral of the story is, "if you're gonna shoot with the big stuff, don't go sucking on the wires".

Frank

Might have been downright entertaining if he stuck the wire in his front pants pocket. Probably would have started a new dance craze....

Anyway, count me in. I have two of the beasties and I use them hand held about 50% of the time.

Rick.

 

[eubielicious]

Ok, maybe some stupid Weegee questions here ... I'm trying to learn a bit more about what he used, and I admit I'm kind of ignorant about the large format stuff, particularly that used 50 years ago.

What kind of film would Weegee use? (Yeah, B&W, I know {duh}.) Seriously, would it be something like Super-XX? Would it be ortho? I know he did use some infrared, but what would he use for regular shooting? About what ASA/ISO?

And those flash bulbs? I know they were about the size of a small regular light bulb. Does anybody know about how powerful they were in modern terms, like about what guide number at ASA/ISO 100 would something like that have?

Hope these aren't really dumb questions. Thanks in advance.

Oh, the questions I wanted to ask...

Also does anyone know how he used to focus, or if he tended to use specific shutter speeds/apertures...?

Euan

 

[dmr]

Also does anyone know how he used to focus, or if he tended to use specific shutter speeds/apertures...?

I did a bit of googling after I asked about film and flash, and here are a few things I found ...

As I recall from his books, Weegee used either Super Pan Press type B, or Super XX. He did most of his flash shots at either 10 feet, or 6 feet. He had memorized the settings for both distances. Of course he basically worked for 3-4 decades and things changed over the years, but the following would be appropriate for the late 40's through mid 50's.

Looking in my old Kodak Master Photoguide from the 50's the following settings would be most likely. According to that handy little book, Super Pan Press was rated ASA 125, and Supper [sic] XX was ASA 100. That gave a #5, or Press 25, clear flashbulb guide number of 220 at 1/50 second for Super Pan Press, and 200 for Super XX,. or f22 at 10 feet and f32 at 6 feet for either of them. You will note that f22 @ 1/50 gives the basic daylight exposure also.

One kind of surprising factoid (at least to somebody who is unfamiliar with large format) is ...

... they tended to use longer exposures and smaller f-stops than is common in 35mm work. One should be able to hand hold a Speed Graphic at 1/25 of a second with a normal (127-200mm) lens no problem, and take a chance at 1/10, or even 1/5, with a good probablity of getting an OK shot especially with a 127 or 135.

These quotes come from:

http://presscameras.graywolfphoto.com/flash-weegee.html

 

[Dave Wooten]

Smaller f stop gives greater depth of field and the flash stops the motion..

 

[eubielicious]

About Graflex flash units, I keep looking on ebay for them, but so many of them aren't being sold as flash units, they've been pulled apart and are being sold to make light sabres for all those Star Wars fans. Can they be put back together, or is there an alternative?

Euan

 

[DBP]

About Graflex flash units, I keep looking on ebay for them, but so many of them aren't being sold as flash units, they've been pulled apart and are being sold to make light sabres for all those Star Wars fans. Can they be put back together, or is there an alternative?

Euan

There are plenty of other equivalent flash units besides the Graflite., such as the Kalart. I may even have a spare I could be talked out of. If you really want a Graflite, your best bet is to buy one attached to a camera, as the Star Wars loonies tend to miss those. The combo can go cheaper than the flash alone sometimes. The Star Wars fans are pretty bizarre on the subject. I saw one series of posts in which fans were complaining that a company in India was making Graflites. They were incensed that their lightsabers might not be the genuine article!

 

[df cardwell]

One of the things that determines much of the period "look"
is that flashbulbs were being used.

Although there are many types of flash bulb,
the common M lamp burns for a relatively long time
This gives the shooter a choice of shutter speeds:
the exposure was determined by the shutter speed,
not flash duration as we assume with electronic flash today

SO, just like an available light shot,
a slow shutter speed allows a smaller f/stop with a flash bulb
because the lamp is burning all the time.

For example, with 125 film and a Press 25 lamp, here are the guide numbers:

1/50: 320
1/100: 250
1/200: 190
1/400: 125

While this gives the chance to use longer shutter speeds,
the press shooter HAD to be aware of the shutter speed
and not turn in blurry film. This was naot acceptable.
A bad cigar, dirty clothes, and a pint of cheap rye whisky in the back pocket
were part of the game. Blurry pictures were not.



It still doesn't seem like a real picture unless there's the smell of flashbulb lacquer in the air.

 

[eubielicious]

There are plenty of other equivalent flash units besides the Graflite., such as the Kalart.

I have just had a look on ebay for Kalart flash units and have come up with the following:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Interesting-U...25QQihZ018QQcategoryZ4702QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-Vintage-fla...19QQihZ005QQcategoryZ4702QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Antique-Kalar...4QQihZ010QQcategoryZ48549QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-Camer...3QQihZ017QQcategoryZ64354QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The description of the third is interesting - from back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth! Do you think these would work?

Euan

 

[Dave Wooten]

HEY J&C....Flashbulb Alert!

Should we alert John at J&C about an expected run on period bulbs?

He does have Press flash bulbs and also infared bulbs....

Wee Gee at times shot in a darkened movie theater using 'red' flash....not sure if he filtered his flash or used ir bulbs?

Maybe some one can shed some light on that.

It would be interesting to compare shots taken with graflex type sheet film camera using the period bulbs and also electronic flash. I am going to try it taping flash so it flashes directly into the reflector dish of my Heiland (they were also used with the Crowns etc.)

Also, I really like the look David Goldfarb achieved with his bare bulb set up, I am going to look into that.

 

[Kino]

Wee Gee at times shot in a darkened movie theater using 'red' flash....not sure if he filtered his flash or used ir bulbs?
Maybe some one can shed some light on that.

He probably used "black-out bulbs", flashbulbs dipped in a special coating that absorbed almost all visual light but allowed IR to pass freely. The formula is all over the Internet, just search for "black-out bulbs" or "ifrared flashbulbs" and you should find the formula.

These were popular in WWII when black-out conditions were enforced in major cities.

Of course, you have to use IR film...

Frank

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Oh, the questions I wanted to ask...

Also does anyone know how he used to focus, or if he tended to use specific shutter speeds/apertures...?

Euan

Weegee probably used all the methods of focusing available to him (scale focusing, groundglass, and rangefinder), but he writes specifically about scale focusing for fast action. He recommends always using a flashbulb and memorizing two distances, like 6 and 10 feet. This would not only make it easier to focus quickly, but would mean that you only have two fixed exposure settings, since the exposure would be determined by the flash to subject distance.

Henri Cartier-Bresson also used a single distance for quick scale focusing.

 

[jimgalli]

Nevada folk have the upper hand here as seedy red light districts are still the order of the day. Sorry Dave, blew your cover. I call dibs on Chi Chi at Bobbie's Buckeye Bar.