Anyone in USA notice Glacial Acetic Acid difficult to obtain?

[lee]

find a beer and wine making store and ask for Citric Acid. Couple of tea spoons per litter and you are good to go. Plus it smells much better.

lee\c

 

[Photo Engineer]

Support your local photo store.

Kodak Glacial Acetic Acid #64-19-7.

I wonder if they still sell it. I got a gallon at my local store about 2 years ago.

I was told by my local shop that Kodak, (whoever bought the chemisty unit) will no longer make glacial acid, just indicator stop. True or false?

I have no idea if Kodak still makes it. They sold the chemical packaging unit about 2 years ago.

They do need it for chemical synthesis and for packing other items, so I know that it is in use at Kodak and at the packing plant.

PE

 

[dynachrome]

Glacial Aceitic Acid

When I graduated from High School many years ago I took home about a gallon of Glacial Aceitic Acid from the school lab. It was in a very thick glass bottle with a huge plastic cap. In those days carrying a gallon of glacial aceitic acid in the subway didn't arouse much suspicion. I must have graduated from college by the time that gallon was used up. I still have a pint of glacial acetic acid from Photographer's Formulary somewhere. I bought it a few years ago at B&H in Manhattan. I remember thinking that the plastic bottle it came in did not look very sturdy.

I might have used up the aceitic acid I had but I started to use the citric acid based odorless indicator stop bath concentrates from Freestyle and Clayton. They are economical, they work and they don't smell bad. I had used the Clayton odorless fixer for some time too but if I waited too long to use it the sodium sulfite would "drop out."

 

[Photo Engineer]

Compared to some other fixers, that is one problem with the Clayton fixers that I have had.

The sulfite is not dropping out so much as the fixer is sulfurizing and forming both sulfur and hydrogen sulfide gas. A bottle of the various acidic Clayton fixer concentrates, unopened, will go bad faster than some others. It works up to specs if used fresh.

PE

 

[ic-racer]

:confused: I wasn't shure if the 'odorless' stop bath was 'economical,' especialy since a 5 gallon container is $236 USD from 'digital truth.' So I calculated the price per liter of working solution.

It turns out this 5 gallons makes 378 liters, which translates into about $0.62 USD per liter. So, not as good as glacial acetic ($0.12/liter), but still pretty reasonable.

 

[ic-racer]

Support your local photo store.

Kodak Glacial Acetic Acid #64-19-7.

I wonder if they still sell it. I got a gallon at my local store about 2 years ago.

PE

Yes, the bottle I just got today has those same numbers on it. I thought it might be some kind of date code, but probably the stock number.

 

[John Curran]

This is a bit of a newbie question but, is there a consensus here that the 'indicator' stop baths are in some way inferior? Is glacial acetic preferable?

regards
John

 

[Marc .]

Yes, the bottle I just got today has those same numbers on it. I thought it might be some kind of date code, but probably the stock number.

Hello,

This 64-19-7 number is the CAS registry number, not any kind of Kodak date and better than a stock code.
This is a unique and universal number defining a chemical compound, more than 30 millions exist today. The CAS number is used all over the world to avoid mistakes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAS_registry_number

Regards,

Marc

 

[Photo Engineer]

That number is the only numerical ID on the bottle of Kodak Glacial Acetic Acid that I have. It is a 1 gallon bottle.

They may use the CAS number for the identification of this item.

PE

 

[Roger Hicks]

This is a bit of a newbie question but, is there a consensus here that the 'indicator' stop baths are in some way inferior? Is glacial acetic preferable?

regards
John

Doesn't actually matter a damn' but indicator stop baths cost a lot more.

I've never seen any credible evidence that the indicator dyes stain the print irreversibly. But everthing in photography will be visible to some people. This includes things that do not exist.

 

[Neal]

Hi Roger,

"But everything in photography will be visible to some people. This includes things that do not exist."

Good stuff!

Neal

 

[ic-racer]

This is a bit of a newbie question but, is there a consensus here that the 'indicator' stop baths are in some way inferior? Is glacial acetic preferable?

regards
John

I used indicator stop bath from 1973 until 2003. Then, one day I saw some water spots that dripped from a completely washed negative, that when dry, left a light blue halo. It may have been the pink from some T-max film base but I thought I would make a change to non-indicator stop bath just in case.

I have no evidence that any print or negative from 1973 until 2003 ever had any damaging effect from the indicator in the stop bath.

The glacial acetic acid is very cost effective. I have a 'one shot' processing setup so I don't need the indicator.

 

[DBP]

But everthing in photography will be visible to some people. This includes things that do not exist.

That's going into my quote collection. I think I will have to refer to it from now on as Hick's Law, generalized to: "Everything will be visible to some people. This includes things that do not exist." The applicability is endless.

 

[JeffD]

I'm getting low on glacial acetic acid stop bath and went to buy another gallon of the Kodak branded glacial acetic acid from my local photo store. They no longer cary it. So 'to the internet' to buy the product. Looks like B&H won't ship the product: "for in-store purchase only."

With global warming increasing, and glaciers fast melting, we are likely to see less and less acetic acid derived from the glaciers coming to market. This couldn't come at a worse time for us analog photographers, already facing pressure from the trends toward digital photography. I don't want to make you feel guilty, but each time you drive your SUV to your favorite photo spot, you are contributing towards the crisis of overdeveloped photos with excessive contrast.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Kodak got theirs from Glacier National Park, and that is why the Formulary still carries it in their catalog. They are about 80 miles south of Glacier Park.



PE

 

[gainer]

But everthing in photography will be visible to some people. This includes things that do not exist.

That is about the most precise statement about photography that I have seen in the 70 years I have practiced it. I still practice. Some day I'll get it roght.

 

[gainer]

See? I stil cannot got it right.

 

[Ole]

That's going into my quote collection. I think I will have to refer to it from now on as Hick's Law, generalized to: "Everything will be visible to some people. This includes things that do not exist." The applicability is endless.

Hicks' Law it is - since Mr. Hicks is not a hick.

 

[Anscojohn]

Heinz brand white vinegar, cheaply purchased in five quart! plastic jugs, at Costco, is clearly labelled as diluted to a standard strength of 5%. I dilute it 1:1 for a stop bath I have used for many years without complaint.

 

[Roger Hicks]

That's going into my quote collection. I think I will have to refer to it from now on as Hick's Law, generalized to: "Everything will be visible to some people. This includes things that do not exist." The applicability is endless.

Thanks for the kind words, generalization and infinitely superior restatement. Just a couple of things: please correct the spelling ('everything' not 'everthing') and use Hicks's or Hicks'.

Edit: I see Ole has already made a plea for Hicks'/Hicks's (I prefer the latter), and paid me a compliment.

Cheers,

R.

 

[DBP]

Hicks' or Hicks's Law

Thanks for the kind words, generalization and infinitely superior restatement. Just a couple of things: please correct the spelling ('everything' not 'everthing') and use Hicks's or Hicks'.

Edit: I see Ole has already made a plea for Hicks'/Hicks's (I prefer the latter), and paid me a compliment.

Cheers,

R.

The spelling will be corrected, as will the name. On the latter I will have to plead illness, or stupidity. As it turns out, there is already a Hick's Law, which is basically that the time needed to make a selection is proportional to the base 2 log of the choices (plus 1).

 

[Maine-iac]

So the question is: Does anyone know a brand of a dilute acetic acid (about 28% or less) with NO indicator?

Why are you bothering with an acid stop bath at all? I gave such baths up many years ago and have never regretted it. I use only water as a stop, both for film and paper. The old canard that the acid bath hardens the emulsion and makes it scratch-resistant is simply not so. It does make it harder to wash the fixer out, but I've never had a problem with scratching using only water. You might get a little more life from your fixer by running it through an acid bath first, but in fact, it's hardly noticeable.

If you're really set on an acid stop bath, all the suggestions about white vinegar are right on. It is just dilute acetic acid, and there's no sediment. Buy it by the gallon for pennies per bath.

Larry

 

[Photo Engineer]

Larry;

I believe I explained elsewhere that stop baths decrease the huge swell induced by the alkaline developer by moving the pH to the acid side near the isoelectric point of the gelatin. This is the minimum swell point and is about pH 4.5, just where most stops are.

This immediately reduces the chance of having scratches. It has the appearance of a harder coating because of the lower swell.

The fixer can be any pH, but if it is at a value of > 6.0 the swell increases thereby speeding up fixing and washing. There are agents that can be added to fixers to increase swell to assist in washing.

The degree of swell will influence chances of scratching, fixability and washing in only some films though as many of them are quite well hardened such as those from Kodak, Ilford and Fuji. Others may not be.

PE

 

[skahde]

The degree of swell will influence chances of scratching, fixability and washing in only some films though as many of them are quite well hardened such as those from Kodak, Ilford and Fuji.

... and Agfa. Sidenote: Agfa Gevaert, Belgium made and is still making more different films than I excpected before Agfaphoto gave in. Not APX, unfortunately...

best

Stefan

 

[Maine-iac]

Larry;

I believe I explained elsewhere that stop baths decrease the huge swell induced by the alkaline developer by moving the pH to the acid side near the isoelectric point of the gelatin. This is the minimum swell point and is about pH 4.5, just where most stops are.

This immediately reduces the chance of having scratches. It has the appearance of a harder coating because of the lower swell.

The fixer can be any pH, but if it is at a value of > 6.0 the swell increases thereby speeding up fixing and washing. There are agents that can be added to fixers to increase swell to assist in washing.

The degree of swell will influence chances of scratching, fixability and washing in only some films though as many of them are quite well hardened such as those from Kodak, Ilford and Fuji. Others may not be.

PE

Perhaps because I opt for shorter development times (usually in the 6 1/2 - 8 minute range, I haven't noticed swelling as a problem. Also perhaps because I normally use either Ilford or Fuji film, both of which, as you say, are already pretty well hardened. At any rate, except for the rare scratch on sheet film, which I tray develop, it hasn't been a problem using only water as a stop. I can see that if you're doing stand development or other more lengthy development times, swell could be a problem and an acid stop would help.

Larry