Anybody Service the Canon T90?

[BySumbergsStache]

Have wanted to get one for a while, but I'm a little afraid about the issue of servicing. I know if it's dead it's dead, but does it generally require CLA when it's working?

 

[cuthbert]

For what I have understood some problems can be fixed other can't in particular if the shutter gets de-magnetized there's nothing to do besides replace it.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Oh yes, the T90 has its fans. I was one of them. It's an all-electronic, multi-drive wunderkind and a CLA would be an involved and likely expensive undertaking (e.g. something costing much more than the net worth of the camera). One major servicing issue is that of replacing the lithium button-cell battery inside, failure of which often causes the EEEEE error message on the display. Long before now this battery would require replacing in the majority of T90 bodies, and is a service bench (not DIY) job. It involves a lot of disassembly of the top, access to and under circuit boards, unsoldering, replacement and resoldering and recalibration of electronics (especially if the battery has been dead for years). I'd like very much to rekindle my 1980s, 3-year association with the T90, but an awareness of reliability issues and faults that point to the battery issue pretty much turn me off. Your first check of a used T90 would be the camera's routine operation (checking for noise, jamming mirror and/or shutter, winding irregularities) and the display — the oft-lamented EEEEE cryptically points to a fault "somewhere" (either passive or critical/fatal), and that could be incorrect film loading or rewinding, a shutter problem, the aforementioned battery service requirement, any one or more of the motors... who is to know? There are quite a few T90 bodies on auction sites. I think your best bet would be to buy one that has been fully serviced and tested, but by eye or ear (not "shutter sounds OK, shutter speeds seem good..."), but the complete technical internal/external servicing, testing and calibration.

 

[benjiboy]

There are people who service T90's providing you love it so much you are prepared to pay more than it's worth for them to do so.

 

[Trask]

My experience with my T90: (A) take it off the shelf, turn it on and fire off a bunch of frames (camera empty, of course) -- this seems to help avoid the EEEE problem, and (B) if you do get EEEE, find a carpeted floor, and smack the camera down on said carpet very firmly, on the flat baseplate. Repeat as necessary until the magnets release and off you go -- repeating Step A helps avoid having to do Step B. The internal battery in my camera hasn't been replaced in the ten years I've had the camera, and as I bought it used it probably wasn't ever replaced before. I'm starting to think it's mythical, or was intended to keep certain capacitors charged long-term, but in practice simply using the usual batteries and firing it every week seems to keep it ticking.

 

[blockend]

I bought a T90 very cheaply a few years ago. Although it was cosmetically perfect, it had the sticky shutter problem. I sent the camera to Miles Whitehead and it functioned perfectly for five years until I sold it recently for about the price I paid for camera and service combined.

The fix wasn't expensive (the price may have gone up slightly in the intervening years) and the T90 is a very usable and robust, if slightly quirky camera. It is a camera that appreciates regular use to ensure the magnets work. A high speed blast every month should be sufficient to keep things moving.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

My experience with my T90: (A) take it off the shelf, turn it on and fire off a bunch of frames (camera empty, of course) -- this seems to help avoid the EEEE problem, and (B) if you do get EEEE, find a carpeted floor, and smack the camera down on said carpet very firmly, on the flat baseplate. Repeat as necessary until the magnets release and off you go -- repeating Step A helps avoid having to do Step B. The internal battery in my camera hasn't been replaced in the ten years I've had the camera, and as I bought it used it probably wasn't ever replaced before. I'm starting to think it's mythical, or was intended to keep certain capacitors charged long-term, but in practice simply using the usual batteries and firing it every week seems to keep it ticking.

"Mythical"!? Maybe not. It definitely exists. Some batteries have been known to go 20+ years. Just like a lot of watches, and the tiny CR2025 in my Canon E-1 intervalometer, which is dated 1991.

In my friend's tattered T90 manual emailed last night, the internal battery reference is on page 108:

:

AFAIK this battery is resident on the wraparound flexboard inside the prism.
You can look for it on the circuit here on the mir.com.my image:
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/canont90/htmls/iccircuits.htm

 

[CMoore]

I am definitely not a Camera Tech, but from reading many posts, just like this one, it seems the T-90 had Lots Of Potential.
If Canon had combined the best parts of the F1 and the T-90, they would have had a "modern" (at that time of course) Professional 35mm Camera that would have been a great piece.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

I am definitely not a Camera Tech, but from reading many posts, just like this one, it seems the T-90 had Lots Of Potential.
If Canon had combined the best parts of the F1 and the T-90, they would have had a "modern" (at that time of course) Professional 35mm Camera that would have been a great piece.

"Modern Professional camera"?? That's what it was, very widely in use by photographers and media at the time, giving it the moniker of "The Tank". Of older technology, Canon had zero interest in taking any history from the F-1 / FD-series cameras to the T90 (there are numerous polite nods to the A-1 however) [Source Lens Work III /1996]. The T90 set the standard to which a lot of later cameras followed — including the entire EOS line from 1989 (e.g. body design on the EOS 1, then the EOS 1N from 1994 and other EOS cameras), and the 1N retains several features pioneered by the T90, including the viewfinder layout and display metrics and the drive technology) The EF mount was a major change of direction, signalling the end of any commitment to continuing the FD-lens lineup. Obviously, you couldn't include old incompatible technology (lenses or bodies) with new technology that had an open door to future development. That would hobble the camera. I shot 630 rolls on the T90 over 3 years — all on Kodachrome 200 using the FD 35-105 f3.5 zoom of the time. These transparencies are in excellent condition, taking me back to scenes and places that have changed a thousand times over.

 

[CMoore]

I see.
I did not realize the T-90 was so widely used by Pros...or that it was referred to as The Tank.
My only experience with it has been looking back, from forums.
Sounds like it was a better camera than what I have read.
Thanks For The Info.

 

[cuthbert]

The T90 is definitely an interesting and Colani's "organic" design set the baseline for all the SLRs and DSLRs that followed.

The camera unlike the T80 was designed for professional use not to replace but to side with the F-1N, Canon was also aware of the rise of AF so they investigate on the possibility to make a "T99" mixing a T80 and a T90:

It appears the project was abandoned when they decided they needed a bigger mount, BTW this was Colani's proposal for the Canon 645 that never happened:

Personally I think the camera has too many buttons and useless functions like the shadow and highlight control that are under and overexposure controls named in a fancy way...and shooting with the F-1N is more rewarding for me.

This page shows other interesting Colani's designs:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-bulging-twisty-future-as-imagined-by-designer-lui-1585856278

 

[Trask]

Oh, I know the battery is there -- I was being whimsical about it being a myth because I've read so few reports of anyone having to replace it!

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

In hindsight, I see the beauty in the controls of both the cracking OM4 and the T90, offering traditional vs unusual and (then) unproven interface methodology (in the case of the T90) that quickly cottoned on and became the standard not just for Canon, but also for Nikon (e.g. F90x)

I once read that around the world, there were only two cameras that were very effective (for those clued-up) at teaching people spot/multispot metering: the Olympus OM4 and the T90 (having used both, and which have almost identical spot/multispot metering modes). The next step, that of using a multispot meter, is far removed from using either of the cameras, but both cameras provide a great springboard for foundation technique that sets you up well for the future.

Spot/multispot and highlight/shadow as techniques are not the same as under- or over-exposure, which can be applied additionally (as it can be with the OM4 / T90 and/or hand-held spot/multispot metering).

 

[cuthbert]

Spot/multispot and highlight/shadow as techniques are not the same as under- or over-exposure, which can be applied additionally (as it can be with the OM4 / T90 and/or hand-held spot/multispot metering).

The highlight/shadow controls on the back are just under and overexposure modes,they do the same thing (i tried) of course multispot metering is another story.

IMO anyway the camera is too complex in terms on controls and if you try to take advantage of all the features it can considerably slow you down while you are thinking if you have to multispot meter, or just average weight, if you have to use the shadow/highlight thing, which kind of program etc...

Also, it can't really be used in manual mode, which would be the most important thing for me.

 

[gone]

Agreed, much smarter and cheaper to simply buy one that is working properly. For now. A CLA'd T90 does not mean it will continue to work, as they're still old electronic cameras w/ a design flaw. Some will work a loooong time, some will die. That's how it is w/ electronics.

I never got on w/ mine due to the extreme size. There are medium format cameras that are smaller! A simple but classic FT QL satisfied all of my Canon FD and FL shooting needs. An F1 is nice too, but the FT QL did all that I expected of it, and I know how to tighten up the shutter tension on those and the FTbs to eliminate shutter capping, something that many suffer from.

 

[tokam]

I bought my T90 new in 1987 when I was living in NZ. Along with a 300TL it cost me an arm and a leg - about 5% of my gross annual salary. Plenty of incentive to look after it. In over 40 years I've never dropped a camera. If a camera is in my hand the strap is either around my neck or wrapped several times around my wrist. I look after my gear. The camera was last serviced by Canon Australia in 1999. Sadly, it seems that most of the second-hand gear on the market today has been through several owners and some of them don't give a toss about their gear. I cringe when I see pics of gear on the auction site that are dented and encrusted in dirt. I've even seen T90's that I swear have been 'cleaned' up with Armorall - they're all slick and glossy looking. The misguided idiots selling them must think that this is evidence of a well looked after camera.

I just took my T90 out of it's bag and fed it 4 x AA Eneloops and ran through the shutter speeds with the back open. From 4 seconds to around 1/125 it all looks and sounds good. I've no reason to believe that the other shutter speeds aren't good as the second curtain release is electronic. Either works or it doesn't. I probably wouldn't buy one second-hand at this stage in its life but I'm hanging onto my one-owner copy. When it finally dies I know that I will have had my money's worth.

The moniker 'The Tank' apparently came out of Japan and there are two origins of this expression that I have heard of. 1) It's big, tough and heavy. 2) T90 is also the model of a Soviet tank.

The internal lithium battery is only to maintain the memory contents while the main batteries are not in the camera or are being changed. The memory data includes the ISO that has been set and the frame count for the current film. The worst that can happen without lithium power is that you will have to reset the ISO on the camera to ensure accurate metering. The drive motors will detect the end of the film regardless of the frame counter. How else can you use unmarked bulk loaded cassettes?

Now for Spot HS / Multi spot metering. I only use spot metering with the Highlight / Shadow adjustment as follows:
1. For scenes of average contrast just meter a mid-tone, grass or worn asphalt, and leave it at that. (Why even use spot metering?).
2. For caucasian faces etc, one spot reading on face and open up a stop with Hightlight button.
3. When metering for shadow detail, one spot reading and close down two or more stops with Shadow button.
In all of the above situations I will also check the rest of the scene with the meter to see if any areas go outside the 4 stops over and under that the metering scale shows in the viewfinder.

The Multi spot facility, with averaging of up to 8 readings, looks like BS to me. It looks like a half baked attempt at manual matrix metering and the T90 sure as hell doesn't do matrix metering. By the time you have taken two readings from key tone and two readings from highlight tones and add in a few more spot readings from the shadows for good measure, what have you got? Probably the same result as a single spot reading that you have intelligently modified with the H/S buttons.

/rant> I suppose you can tell that I like my T90 and I know it fairly well. I also like my F1-N and EF. I don't feel so strongly about my AE-1 and A1 which are also in Ex cosmetic and working condition but they are sentimental favourites. Bought the AE-1 as Christmas present to myself in the UK in 1978 and my late grandmother bought the A-1 for me in 1984. Cannot let go of either of them.

 

[CMoore]

Wow...!!
Great insight on the T-90.
I will not be buying one for many of the Reasons/Comments you have laid out. Though I DO envy you your original. I would love to own a new T-90, but that is not to be.
I have a great condition (cosmetics and function) A-1 and AT-1. I pretty much stay in manual mode, so the AT-1 is faster for that...but the A-1 is available for shutter or aperture priority if needed, plus it is such a Gorgeous Looking Camera.

 

[flavio81]

For what I have understood some problems can be fixed other can't in particular if the shutter gets de-magnetized there's nothing to do besides replace it.

AFAIK those solenoids (that operate the shutter) are similar to the ones in the AE-1 and A-1, and those never get demagnetized, they only get dirty to the point they stop working. But that can be solved easily by a technician. Any tech can also replace the internal battery.

On the other hand, i don't see any reason to go with a T90 when a masterpiece such as the Canon F-1N is available. Tougher and more reliable and prettier and classier. Who needs multi-spot metering anyways? Real photographers use a handheld meter

Or you can just fit the proper screen to the F-1N and get spot metering. Or partial metering, which IMO is more useful and is also available on the classic Canon F-1.

 

[flavio81]

I shot 630 rolls on the T90 over 3 years — all on Kodachrome 200 using the FD 35-105 f3.5 zoom of the time. These transparencies are in excellent condition, taking me back to scenes and places that have changed a thousand times over.

Great lens!!

 

[blockend]

The T90 was more of a cosmetic template for the future than a technological one. The camera was only around for 18 months before the first EF mount camera came out, so Canon were obviously well under way with their autofocus intentions before the T90 even emerged.

As I said earlier in the thread it's a quirky camera, some controls are on the back, some on top, and some beneath a panel door on the side. These would be rationalised on future film models and evolved into the DSLR style controls we know today. The transient technological nature of the T90 will be sufficient to commend it to some people, for looks alone it was years ahead of its time even if it's genesis was stuck in the 1970s.

 

[AgX]

Canon was busy with AF research many years before starting designing the T-90.

The locations of controls are also due to ergomics. Thus spreading them over the body can be quite useful.

 

[cuthbert]

AFAIK those solenoids (that operate the shutter) are similar to the ones in the AE-1 and A-1, and those never get demagnetized, they only get dirty to the point they stop working. But that can be solved easily by a technician. Any tech can also replace the internal battery.

On the other hand, i don't see any reason to go with a T90 when a masterpiece such as the Canon F-1N is available. Tougher and more reliable and prettier and classier. Who needs multi-spot metering anyways? Real photographers use a handheld meter

Or you can just fit the proper screen to the F-1N and get spot metering. Or partial metering, which IMO is more useful and is also available on the classic Canon F-1.

Nothing against the T90, it's a well made camera (perhaps it they had made with rough plastic like the T80 it would have felt better, it's slightly slippery at the touch) but the owner's manual is over 100 pages and I also bought a book to understand its potentiality:

Still I feel the camera does "too much" for me and what I would like to do (use it in manual mode) is impossible.

 

[AgX]

If it does too much for you, then an older Canon with a "zeroing-needle" meter would be best.

Yes, for the T90 one definitely needs the manual. For me the T90 is the limit concerning complexity and manual. I could not stand more.

 

[Trask]

Regarding multi-spot -- I've occasionally found it useful. I tend to think of it in terms of balancing the light/dark values of what I'm looking at. For example, I was photographing a wall (in open shade) that had next to a long, dark underground driveway with some detail I wanted to retain. So I gave the wall 2 multi-spot hits and then added a pinch of the dark area to ensure it got factored in a bit. So 66% to the wall and 33% to the dark. I could have done 3 hits and one hit, or whatever ratio I wanted. Yes, kind of matrix reading, but based on what I want to matrix, not what the camera engineers programmed into a CPU.

 

[benjiboy]

"Modern Professional camera"?? That's what it was, very widely in use by photographers and media at the time, giving it the moniker of "The Tank". Of older technology, Canon had zero interest in taking any history from the F-1 / FD-series cameras to the T90 (there are numerous polite nods to the A-1 however) [Source Lens Work III /1996]. The T90 set the standard to which a lot of later cameras followed — including the entire EOS line from 1989 (e.g. body design on the EOS 1, then the EOS 1N from 1994 and other EOS cameras), and the 1N retains several features pioneered by the T90, including the viewfinder layout and display metrics and the drive technology) The EF mount was a major change of direction, signalling the end of any commitment to continuing the FD-lens lineup. Obviously, you couldn't include old incompatible technology (lenses or bodies) with new technology that had an open door to future development. That would hobble the camera. I shot 630 rolls on the T90 over 3 years — all on Kodachrome 200 using the FD 35-105 f3.5 zoom of the time. These transparencies are in excellent condition, taking me back to scenes and places that have changed a thousand times over.

It was called "the tank" not because of it's legendery durability but because it shared the designation T90 with a Russian tank http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t90.htm