Anybody buying Kodak B&W films nowadays?

destroya · Jul 1, 2023

someplace buried deep in my "save these things" box, I have my bands original 2 inch master multi track tapes from our studio recordings. now if I could only find machine and desk to play them back without having to pay the ridiculous hourly rate that studios charge..... We did master them down to a 2 track master, but my GTR player has those tapes. I always thought analog music had a warmth to it that digital did't/doesn't have, hence the reason for me forcing the all analog recordings. probably the same reason I shoot film, there is an intangible feeling from an analog print/image

john

Arthurwg · Jul 1, 2023

Recently bought 10 rolls of Tri-X 120 for $177.00. Seems rather expensive.

faberryman · Jul 1, 2023

Arthurwg said:
Recently bought 10 rolls of Tri-X 120 for $177.00. Seems rather expensive.

Seems expensive to me too. Where did you buy them? Two 5-packs of Tri-X 120 runs around $90 at B&H.

Anon Ymous · Jul 1, 2023

Arthurwg said:
Recently bought 10 rolls of Tri-X 120 for $177.00. Seems rather expensive.

$177? Is this correct?

GregY · Jul 1, 2023

Arthurwg said:
Recently bought 10 rolls of Tri-X 120 for $177.00. Seems rather expensive.

Yes. $90 at B&H...... $110 at Freestyle

TomR55 · Jul 1, 2023

Agulliver said:
A brand new audiophile professionally recorded/duplicated quarter inch two track or four track will set you back up to £400. You can usually specify 2 or 4 tracks, and 7/5ips or 15ips. New blank tape is somewhat cheaper but you can still drop £80 on a 10.5 inch reel of RTM LPR35 which is based on a well known BASF formula. A bit less for tape coated by the folk who used to coat Zonal tape (now sold as Capture). There's also ATR in America coating new RTR tape. But a bit like film, it's now down to likely just three companies remaining. There's still a market for a few home users such as myself, and some studios offer analogue tape or use "analogue only" studios as a selling point.

FWIW the magnetic tape manufacturers have similar issues to photo film manufacturers....getting hold of the chemicals needed. Chemical supply problems even affect little old me in my school laboratories, prices have doubled or more and lead times that were once a few days can be a few months now. And that's for commonly used stuff. It's little wonder film and tape manufacturing has been hit. They're both niche areas with little leverage with the suppliers compared to their big customers....in a market where everything has increased in price and lead times are unpredictable.

Thank you for this informative reply!

I should have thought that at least some demand remained because in the US we do have studios that work in analogue (I'm thinking that up until a few years ago Steve Albini (producer, think Big Black front man) ...) was spreading the good news about analogue materials and methods but to a somewhat doubtful audience.

It's a good day when I learn something ....

TomR55 · Jul 1, 2023

destroya said:
someplace buried deep in my "save these things" box, I have my bands original 2 inch master multi track tapes from our studio recordings. now if I could only find machine and desk to play them back without having to pay the ridiculous hourly rate that studios charge..... We did master them down to a 2 track master, but my GTR player has those tapes. I always thought analog music had a warmth to it that digital did't/doesn't have, hence the reason for me forcing the all analog recordings. probably the same reason I shoot film, there is an intangible feeling from an analog print/image

john

I hope and trust that they were stored properly ... ends-out, cool and dry spaces, etc. IIRC most studios would run their masters onto new reels to just minimize print-through.

Lachlan Young · Jul 1, 2023

Agulliver said:
I believe that is an out of date observation. 10 years ago it might well have been true, but today is sloppy "journalism".

That could describe this entire thread. A heap of cheapskate hobbyists with grossly distorted understanding of price structures & who are not the target market (and arguably never were) for premium-level creative materials & who specialised in bottom feeding off overproduction/ surplus from market changes. Somehow I don't think any of them have even the faintest inkling of how much any premium art/ creative material costs today. A lot of them have far too many cameras & are unwilling to jettison them in favour of minimalising equipment & maximising quality materials that they will use in the next 12 months...

MattKing · Jul 1, 2023

Lachlan Young said:
That could describe this entire thread. A heap of cheapskate hobbyists with grossly distorted understanding of price structures & who are not the target market (and arguably never were) for premium-level creative materials & who specialised in bottom feeding off overproduction/ surplus from market changes. Somehow I don't think any of them have even the faintest inkling of how much any premium art/ creative material costs today. A lot of them have far too many cameras & are unwilling to jettison them in favour of minimalising equipment & maximising quality materials that they will use in the next 12 months...

Somehow, I envision hearing Lachlan saying this in a thick Scottish burr....
I gather solace in recollecting that the lack of understanding of what goes into something's price has been misunderstood by most for as long as I've paid attention to that - going on 50 years or so - so there is no particular reason that that understanding would be improved now.

_T_ · Jul 1, 2023

I’m about to go pick up a few rolls of 35mm 36 exposure tmy for ≈$15 a piece at the local camera shop because I need tmy tomorrow and if that’s the price I gotta pay to have it then that’s what I have to do.

GregY · Jul 1, 2023

Lachlan Young said:
That could describe this entire thread. A heap of cheapskate hobbyists with grossly distorted understanding of price structures & who are not the target market (and arguably never were) for premium-level creative materials & who specialised in bottom feeding off overproduction/ surplus from market changes. Somehow I don't think any of them have even the faintest inkling of how much any premium art/ creative material costs today. A lot of them have far too many cameras & are unwilling to jettison them in favour of minimalising equipment & maximising quality materials that they will use in the next 12 months...

Lachlan, I agree with you entirely.
Unfortunatey the quote paints Agulliver in a bad light. His comment was about vinyl records and people who didn't even have a turntable. Further down that post he is actually in agreement with you
" don't know why Kodak's B&W film is significantly more expensive than Ilford's....except that the B&W film is Ilford's main product and a bit of a minority one for Kodak. What I don't do is envisage a fat executive in a large chair stroking a long-haired, white cat and dreaming up the next Kodak price increase. It's as "cheap" as it can reasonably be. We know their profit margins ain't big on film.

braxus · Jul 1, 2023

I will still continue to buy Kodak film, even if the price is high. Kodak is my preferred brand of film, for almost everything. I do dabble in Fuji for E6 (especially Velvia 50), and Ilford for some rolls. But I more so than not get Kodak. Luckily I dont shoot that often (due to just not having anything new to shoot), so I dont go through a ton of rolls per year. I mix color a lot with my B&W shooting. So when I buy Kodak film, I only get a few rolls at a time. Im trying to use up more of whats in my film freezer though. I have enough film there to last me till I pass on, and then some. Hardest thing for me today is finding new things to shoot. I dont travel a lot, which is part of the problem. Getting bored of my area though, without going on hikes (Im lazy) of course.

Don_ih · Jul 1, 2023

Lachlan Young said:
A heap of cheapskate hobbyists with grossly distorted understanding of price structures & who are not the target market (and arguably never were) for premium-level creative materials & who specialised in bottom feeding off overproduction/ surplus from market changes. Somehow I don't think any of them have even the faintest inkling of how much any premium art/ creative material costs today.

We have an expression for that sort of vitriol: "Who shit in your cornflakes?"

It's ok - I'm used to Matt deleting my posts. But I like to reserve my criticism for people one at at time, rather than insulting everyone in a thread I probably have not completely read.

albireo · Jul 1, 2023

Just made a bulk order from Photoimpex.de for 20 rolls of Kentmere 400 in 120 for a grand total of 119 Euro.

20 rolls of Tri-X would have cost me 232 Euro.

With the 113 Euro I saved I went straight to Artbooksonline.eu and purchased two fantastic Monographs, by Steidl and Mack respectively

Luigi Ghirri - Puglia (Mack)
Robert Adams – Gone? Colorado in the 1980s (Steidl)

I find consumables, especially overrated, overpriced consumables from a once popular brand with a cult following amongst some, to have only a tiny impact on my photography.

But I'm sure it's just me - we're all different. I like to exercise my right to choose how to spend my money, and I find it ok to share my views about it in a fitting thread. All of this, without offending everyone else who thinks differently, of course.

Conversely, I find that in general most attempts at mass-offending people based on how they choose to spend their money reek of council estate upbringing and deeply seated insecurity.

Lachlan Young · Jul 1, 2023

GregY said:
Unfortunatey the quote paints Agulliver in a bad light. His comment was about vinyl records and people who didn't even have a turntable. Further down that post he is actually in agreement with you

I was trying to back up Agulliver's point, however imprecise my choice of quote may have been!

GregY · Jul 1, 2023

Lachlan Young said:
I was trying to back up Agulliver's point, however imprecise my choice of quote may have been!

gotcha! Like Braxus.... i appreciate the qualities of Kodak films.... & cost differential won't change that.

Radost · Jul 1, 2023

Agulliver said:
I believe that is an out of date observation. 10 years ago it might well have been true, but today is sloppy "journalism". There certainly was a trend for people to buy vinyl records in order to have something to handle and perhaps put on display. Now they're played. Not always on sufficiently good equipment, but they're played. The same may not be true of the smaller but extant rise in sales of cassette tapes, they are mostly not being played by the young folk buying them. A bit of a shame because the few new releases that I've bought have been well duplicated. While I cannot buy film or cassettes at my local supermarket, there is a reasonable choice of LPs there. And it's been quite some years since I needed to "worry" about weather an anticipated new release from a favourite artist would be available on vinyl or not.

as for the cost of records Vs CDs....just look at the process to manufacture each item. A CD costs a few pennies to manufacture. A vinyl record actually costs a few dollarpounds. The vinyl will also in most cases be specially mastered for the format, sometimes by an expert mastering engineer

I don't know why Kodak's B&W film is significantly more expensive than Ilford's....except that the B&W film is Ilford's main product and a bit of a minority one for Kodak. What I don't do is envisage a fat executive in a large chair stroking a long-haired, white cat and dreaming up the next Kodak price increase. It's as "cheap" as it can reasonably be. We know their profit margins ain't big on film.

Sorry for sliding out of topic.

Vinyls sound horrible. It is extremely limited technology. They use an artificial EQ curve that if a sound or mastering engineer use will be fired.
If precision of sound and acoustic quality reproduction is needed digital recording and playback is million percent better.
Analog Tape is a lot better Than Vinyl.
If people enjoy analog “which i do as well” tape is a lot better Because it does not need to have all its lows and low-mid boosted and cut down artificially while do the opposite with mid highs like on a vinyls.
Vinyls are more for a show/fashionable craze that has more to do with look and placebo feelings than anything else.

An OK example is:
Vinyls are TMAX3200 shot at 6400.
Digital is tmax100

And can not really compare visual is totally different than sonic.

john_s · Jul 1, 2023

Different size organisations have different cost structures I'm sure. And then there are marketing decisions. For many years I used Fujifilm Neopan400 as my only film even though here (Australia) it was the most expensive film, more than the other main makers. I noticed that people in other countries used the same film because it was the cheapest of the main makers' films. I concluded that it was all about local marketing strategies. Now I'm getting up to speed with HP5+ after considering all sorts of pros and cons.

Don_ih · Jul 1, 2023

Radost said:
Vinyls sound horrible.

No. They sound good enough. Music was popularlized on the production of lps - more than by any other medium. It is the standard. Small cassette tapes are worse than lps. CDs are better. People can say that CDs are worse as much as they want but a properly mastered CD beats the very best vinyl in terms of sound quality. A lot of the "classic" albums, though, got very poor CD issues.

Sirius Glass · Jul 1, 2023

Radost said:
Sorry for sliding out of topic.

Vinyls sound horrible. It is extremely limited technology. They use an artificial EQ curve that if a sound or mastering engineer use will be fired.
If precision of sound and acoustic quality reproduction is needed digital recording and playback is million percent better.
Analog Tape is a lot better Than Vinyl.
If people enjoy analog “which i do as well” tape is a lot better Because it does not need to have all its lows and low-mid boosted and cut down artificially while do the opposite with mid highs like on a vinyls.
Vinyls are more for a show/fashionable craze that has more to do with look and placebo feelings than anything else.

An OK example is:
Vinyls are TMAX3200 shot at 6400.
Digital is tmax100

View attachment 342681
And can not really compare visual is totally different than sonic.

You might want to be checked out by an audiologist or ENT. Vinyl records sound well to everyone else.

Sal Santamaura · Jul 1, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
You might want to be checked out by an audiologist or ENT. Vinyl records sound well to everyone else.

While I don't agree with the reasons given in the post Steve replied to, neither do I agree that vinyl LPs sound "well" to everyone. They sound lousy to me, compared with CDs.

I find it most interesting how, in some PHOTRIO threads, when some moderators are present, the apparently unwritten rule that "off topic is verboten" gets "enthusiastically" enforced and, in other threads, it's "off topic -- let 'er rip!"

Radost · Jul 1, 2023

Don_ih said:
No. They sound good enough. Music was popularlized on the production of lps - more than by any other medium. It is the standard. Small cassette tapes are worse than lps. CDs are better. People can say that CDs are worse as much as they want but a properly mastered CD beats the very best vinyl in terms of sound quality. A lot of the "classic" albums, though, got very poor CD issues.

I said tape not cassette.
I dont listen to good enough.
I listen to RME ADI-2 with coaxial speakers. I can not even listen to normal speakers anymore. The phasing issues are annoying..

Radost · Jul 1, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
You might want to be checked out by an audiologist or ENT. Vinyl records sound well to everyone else.

It depends from how good their hearing is and what the expectations are.
I approach sound different than photos. “Being my area of expertise as a designer of a microphone and inventor of specialized recording device”
I want sound capture and reproduction to trick my brain in to being at the space where it was recorded…
That can be accomplish only by digital reproduction or analog reel to reel tape and good speakers in a good acoustic space.

Radost · Jul 1, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
You might want to be checked out by an audiologist or ENT. Vinyl records sound well to everyone else.

I have protected my ears my entire life. I get paid with my ears. My friends think I am ridiculous but I have never put my ears in harms way. Sometimes a little for work but I avoid those kind of jobs.

Radost · Jul 1, 2023

This thing is so ridiculously stupid and I understand why it was used at the time when the technology was lacking but now days is baffling why anybody will submit theirself to this garbage.
Also applies to TUBE vs Solid State.
I dont care how expansive hand selected a tube amplification is solid state is million years ahead.

Anybody buying Kodak B&W films nowadays?

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