Any thoughts on Fotokemika Emaks or Slavich Unibrom?

Xia_Ke said:

I want to try playing with some FB paper and toning but, still being very new don't want to spend the $$$ on Oriental or Ilford Gallerie since I'll just be blowing through it experimenting. Looking on Freestyle, Fotokemika Emaks and Slavich Unibrom seem to be the 2 cheapest graded FB papers. Any thoughts on one over the other or any others?

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Hi!

Emaks FB is my standard paper not just because I live less than a 10km from factory but also because I like the paper.

At first let me say something about paper grading since Fotokemika is marking it differently for US and European market. There is 3 grades, Soft, Normal and Hard. In Europe it is grade 1, G2 and G3. In US same paper have G2, G3 and G4 marks. I guess it would be better to call it Soft, Normal and Hard just to avoid misunderstanding.

You can found some information at http://www.adox.de/english/ADOX_Papers/ADOX_Papers/Nuance.html and datasheet at http://www.fotokemika.hr/hr/detalji/28/0/crnobijeli-papir/emaks

As you can see in datasheet Hard gradation is more like Normal and a half instead really full grade harder than Normal. Also, you can see that different grades don't have same sensitivity to light and Hard must be exposed considerably longer.

The paper is slightly warmtone and I didn't notice tone difference between grades but I recently bough my first box of Soft grade so I have a limited experience with it.
The base, as someone said it, don't have whitening so don't expect spark highlights. It is very nice paper for portraits but the Sun reflection on chromed objects look a little bit dull. I'm looking for some information if there is some afterbath to improve that.

Notice the information at Adox site:
"However some modern developers are formulated and their respective dilution as well as capacity is given for RC papers with incorporated developing substances. These developers will "give up" if confronted with the silver content of Nuance and the prints will not achieve maximum values."
So far I bath the paper in Ilford Multigrade, Warmtone and Cooltone developers and Zone VI and at beginning in Fotokemika FR16 universal developer. I don't know much about each developer but I had mixed results, sometimes because of badly exposed or developed negatives.
Still looking for chemistry to try it in Ansco 130/120 and would like to try some Amidol or PPPD developer but the chemistry is not easy to found in Croatia so I think it will be on my wish list for a very long time.
Honestly I don't remember results I was getting with FR16 but I didn't notice easily noticeable difference between Zone VI and Ilford Multigrade developer. Results are neutral to very subtle warm toned.
In Warmtone developer 1+9 it is very similar to Zone VI and Multigrade but at 1+19 dilution it is slightly more warm toned. Opposite to that in Cooltone developer 1+9 it is noticeable colder but 1+19 dilution is just like 1+9 Wormtone, pretty neutral tone.
I don't have densitometer so all this is pure visual observation and most of the time different negatives.

Still didn't try it in toners but will buy Agfa Viradon brown toner soon.
IST is expensive here (and usually not on store shelf) and KRST is not available at all.

I also try some Ilford RC and FB papers, Forte Polywarmtone and Fotokemika Varycon. Forte is excellent paper but not available any more. Emaks is my second best but sometimes even better than Forte.

So, don't know what else to say. If you can understand my English and have some questions don't hesitate to ask it.

Greetings from Croatia,
Zvonimir

Thanks Michael and Zvonimir I was going to go just with the Emaks but, they were sold out of the 100 sheet packs and only 2 of the 25 sheet packs. They sounded a little uncertain as to how solid the expected arrival date was so, since I'm new and still really have no idea what I'm doing, thought why not get an assortment...LOL I went with all grade 2 for now since that is what I have been most happy with for the majority of my negatives so far. I'll be using Ilford Multigrade and Warmtone developers. Along with selenium toning I also want to try out coffee toning as I've liked the results I've seen from some in the gallery. Picked up a couple books on toning as well. This is going to be fun. Can't wait to start playing

Are you ordering from Freestyle? They always seem to have plenty in stock . . . .

Yeah, it was from freestyle. They had plenty G3 and G4 but, were out of the 100 sheet boxes of G2 and only had 2 of the 25 sheet boxes left. I emailed them and they said they had a couple expected arrival dates noted but weren't sure exactly when it would be in

Bearing in mind the difference in labeling that Zvonimir mentions, if you are used to G2 with other papers, you may prefer the middle grade of Emaks (G3 from Freestyle). I tend to use more G2 than G3 and very little G4, but others use G3 as their normal grade. G2 is a little softer than other G2 papers, and G3 is a little harder. I think when J&C was selling it they called the middle grade "Normal," though Cachet and Maco labeled it G3, and Freestyle labels it G3.

Thanks David, I'll keep that in mind when I try out the paper. That may actually work out good because there are a couple negatives of mine I have come across where the G2 Ilfospeed was a little too hard for what I wanted.

Well Xia_Ke, as I've mentioned on Flickr with you. Fotokemika Varycon is an amazing Fiber paper, and since Brovira and Portriga are gone, it's been my main-stay paper. However, rather than going through all the hassle of using various toners and having fumes build up within my darkroom, I've gotten some Fomatone to try. Beautiful creme base, for a genuine vintage look.

So after going through the Emaks, try some Fomabrom or Fomatone. But! If you're looking for cheap, never mind. Remember this is your art, your perception of a moment in time you're presenting. What kind of price can you put on that?

Rolleijoe

I would be very curious to hear your thoughts on the Emaks vs. Slavich, I have been using the Slavich but have found the grade II too hard for a few of my negatives (they are probably overdeveloped a little bit) and it sounds like the Emaks may be a little softer.

Skorzen said:

I would be very curious to hear your thoughts on the Emaks vs. Slavich, I have been using the Slavich but have found the grade II too hard for a few of my negatives (they are probably overdeveloped a little bit) and it sounds like the Emaks may be a little softer.

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I had the same issue with Slavich, but I found that by mixing 2 parts Dektol with 1 part Zonal Pro Warmtone I was able to soften just enough to print some harder negatives. Other the other hand Emaks appears to be softer than Slavich, but I have not printed the same negative side by side.

Printing this paper today with Guillaume, some very beautiful negatives to 30 x 40 using Ansco 130.
This paper has a lovely tone , kind of olive in the mid tones and very rich blacks.. Slight selenium tone and these prints are really kicking.
Going to do some more over the next few days... Gulaume says that this is excellent lith and by all accounts looks that way and I will be trying the G4 after he leaves .

I bought some emaks and slavich grade 4 at Freestyle over the weekend to try with some of my thinny, thin and flat negatives...

I'll report after I give it a go...I have a lot of things to do in the darkroom over the next week or so, like making a neg carrier for my step wedge, paper fog tests from the huge batch I just lucked on to, etc, etc...never a lack of things to do. Oh yeah, I want to print some proofs from my latest roll, too!

PVia said:

Thomas,
Do you use a red safelight with the Emaks...?
How about the Slavich...anyone? Thanks...

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I wonder where that red safelight recommendation
came from. I'm working with Kentmere Bromide,
Slavich, and Emaks, all glossy graded. A same
set of yellow-ish orange safelights for all. Dan

Paul Howell said:

Emaks appears to be softer than Slavich, ...

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No doubt Slavich is a contrasty paper. I ran a series
of tests with that and Kentmere Bromide and Emaks.
In Beer's 1, a soft Ansco 120 type, Slavich made a
border line grade 3, Kentmere and Emaks, a good
grade 1. Using Beer's 7, a Dektol type, Slavich
made grade 4, Kentmere a soft 2, and Emaks,
a center grade 2.

All the above glossy grade 2 DW FB. Your
batches may vary. Dan

Thanks for all the input everyone Fedex says it will be in tomorrow. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I'll get a chance to do any printing until next Tuesday I'll let you all know what my results are.

Aaron

One more thing about Emaks - if you ever get into lith printing... It's absolutely gorgeous stuff. I'm not sure about Slavich for that, Aaron.
- Thomas

Slavich unibrom is very hard for regular printing. Their G2 is really G3 for everyone else. That aside, it can be managed with a less dense neg, or water bath / selectol soft dev. The Unibrom liths very well, but is VERY cold toned in lith and did not liberate any warmer pink or salmon hues. It might change after a bleaching though, though I've not tried that. In Tim Rudman's second lith book, there was a reference to some folks getting severe edge fogging with it for lith. I've never had anything like that occur when using Arista-lith. Slavich also worked well under a premier OC safelight for VC paper even though the recommendation is for a red one. Mind you mine is long way away from the paper in use.

I've also tried the EMAKS VC paper and found it a little low on overall range. It would be good for a very contrasty neg that needed taming down some. I need to give it more of a work out though to know for sure how I feel about EMAKS in general.

Andy, Emaks is different from Varycon. Varycon is the VC paper, Emaks is the graded. To some extent their tonal range is similar.
Varycon does best in very dilute developer, like Ansco 130 at 1+3. You eke out more black that way, increasing the Dmax and the apparent contrast but you need to soup it for 3+ minutes. Emaks is a little bit different, it seems to give a bit lower contrast than what's the stated grade, but once again you can alter that with your developer some. It absolutely sings in Amidol. A whole choir at full blast. It is very responsive that way. I've never tried it with Neutol WA that you use.
Varycon turns somewhat green in lith, and if you go for enough contrast by shortening the exposure time and leaving it in the developer for much longer, you get a split tone with very warm highlights. Emaks turns brown in lith, and more intensely so with longer exposure.
- Thomas

Just finishing up with Guilliume today some prints on the Emak, with a bit of toning to boot,,,, really lovely paper with fantastic tonalities and opportunities for lith as well.. here is a pic of one of the prints we did yesterday.. I am the handsome guy in the orange jumpsuit.

Beautiful. Really stunning.

Where can I get a suit like that?

I think Rikers Island is close to you .. can meet a friend as well

Jersey Vic said:

Beautiful. Really stunning.

Where can I get a suit like that?

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Thomas Bertilsson said:

One more thing about Emaks - if you ever get into lith printing... It's absolutely gorgeous stuff. I'm not sure about Slavich for that, Aaron.
- Thomas

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Hi Thomas
What lith developer did you use with Emaks? I haven't been able to get very good colors out of new emaks, just from papers that are about 15 years old.

Of course, now that I have changed to Wolfgang Moersch's developer, I might give it a try in that.

/matti

Matti, I'm using the developer sold by Freestyle Photo in California. Arista Lith. It's similar to Maco and Fotospeed in the colors and tonalities I'm able to achieve, but requires a slightly higher temperature to get there.
The dilution is 1+1+30, and I use it at around 75-80*F. (24-26*C).

Here is a link to the APUG gallery with an example. I think only subscribers can view it. This is a short exposure and about 14 minute development time. You get warmer brown tone with longer exposure time with development times at around 10-11 minutes, and less contrast of course.
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I've pasted the image below for those that can't go to the gallery to view. It's the Grade 3 version. I love this paper in both lith, Ansco 130, and Amidol. Exceptional stuff.

Thanks,

- Thomas

matti said:

Hi Thomas
What lith developer did you use with Emaks? I haven't been able to get very good colors out of new emaks, just from papers that are about 15 years old.

Of course, now that I have changed to Wolfgang Moersch's developer, I might give it a try in that.

/matti

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When posting my pictures in the APUG gallery, I could not remember what paper I printed on - that was quite a while ago in Russia. You reminded me - Slavich Unibrom! Unfortunatelly cannot compare it to other papers as I didn't have a chance to use them. I am only returning to old style photography and dark room printing. The label on the package of Unibrom said in huge letters "Photo paper", so for me it was THE photo paper. Ususally - in Soviet times - only grade 3 was available in stores. So I had to use it for all kinds of negatives using developer of a different density and temperature.

Regards and thanks again.

Victor.

Thank you Thomas.
Great Holga-stuff. 1+1+30... I was doing 1+1+19, maybe I will try it again. With the Moersch-developer, Wolfgang suggests 15+25+1000 ml for Forte graded papers. Maybe I will try something like that here for more color. I really like the surface of emaks. Even better than forte. And I need a way of heating the stuff for lith as well.

/matti

Thomas Bertilsson said:

Matti, I'm using the developer sold by Freestyle Photo in California. Arista Lith. It's similar to Maco and Fotospeed in the colors and tonalities I'm able to achieve, but requires a slightly higher temperature to get there.
The dilution is 1+1+30, and I use it at around 75-80*F. (24-26*C).

Here is a link to the APUG gallery with an example. I think only subscribers can view it. This is a short exposure and about 14 minute development time. You get warmer brown tone with longer exposure time with development times at around 10-11 minutes, and less contrast of course.
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I've pasted the image below for those that can't go to the gallery to view. It's the Grade 3 version. I love this paper in both lith, Ansco 130, and Amidol. Exceptional stuff.

Thanks,

- Thomas

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I've been using Emaks 8X10 which is handled pretty rapidly, as well as the 16X20 which is slower to handle, under OC, no fog that I can detect. The sensitivity curve drops out about 530nm so I'm guessing any amber light will be safe.