Any suggestions for a paper developer with good longevity?

logan2z · Jun 26, 2023

I've traditionally used Ilford's Multigrade Developer to make fiber-based prints and like the results I get with it, but it goes off too quickly and I'd like something that I can re-use across several printing sessions.

I've read good things about Eco Pro and Liquidol and both are reported to have pretty good longevity when mixed at working strength. Is there a strong argument for one over the other? Are there other options to consider as well? My preference is for a pretty neutral developer (I don't tone my prints), and I would strongly prefer a liquid developer rather than mixing my own from powders.

lantau · Jun 26, 2023

I never used an Ilford developer. But I had the impression that Adox MCC developer held up better than their Neutol Eco developer. It is also a pretty good paper developer. I'm using a slot processor with replenishment, which is beneficial for keeping developer for long periods/indefinitely. For that reason I can't be entirely sure if the comparison will hold up for tray use.

logan2z · Jun 26, 2023

lantau said:
I'm using a slot processor with replenishment, which is beneficial for keeping developer for long periods/indefinitely. For that reason I can't be entirely sure if the comparison will hold up for tray use.

I guess I should have mentioned that I'm using trays. I used a Nova slot processor for several years, but just recently switched back to trays.

Kino · Jun 26, 2023

Ethol LPD; you can get it liquid or powder form.

The longevity of this paper developer is legend.

L Gebhardt · Jun 26, 2023

Ansco 130. I replenish it and it last months. It's mixed from powders, but I think it's worth the hassle. You can get it in a kit or mix it yourself from the individual components. The formulary kit is easy to mix and if you dump the contents underwater there is no dust, if that's your concern.

LPD was my previous dev of choice, but I've only used the powder. If I recall there's a concentration difference with the liquid vs mixed powder.

George Collier · Jun 26, 2023

+1 Ethol LPD, for reasons stated above. IIRC, Fred Picker's recommendation started me on it, from Dektol, after he stopped producing the Zone VI print developer.

Roger Cole · Jun 26, 2023

Kino said:
Ethol LPD; you can get it liquid or powder form.

The longevity of this paper developer is legend.

Agree. Not only is it very long lasting it's just an excellent developer. It's been my preferred go-to since I discovered it in the 1980s.

Yes there is a concentration and thus dilution difference between the powder and concentrate. Just follow the recommendations and both work identically when diluted per instructions. The powder is, of course, quite a bit cheaper while the liquid is a lot more convenient. Choose based on cost vs. convenience (or maybe availability these days, though I've not had problems finding it.)

EDIT: I just looked at current prices as I haven't bought any in quite a while. It seems the cost difference is not all that much when adjusting for the fact the liquid is more concentrated. Still a bit more though.

Paul Howell · Jun 26, 2023

Photographers Formulary Liquidol.

David R Williams · Jun 26, 2023

I've been using a 2 litre glass bottle of working solution Ilford Multigrade developer (1:9 dilution) for months.

I top off the bottle once I finish a printing session with more 1:9 working strength solution to completely fill the bottle to the rim, and I've noticed no drop-off in image emergence time, tonal separation, maximum black, or any need to adopt factorial development adjustments. I don't tend to print a lot at one time, so using the developer this way is super economical and still provides the qualities that I'm used to.

Rick A · Jun 26, 2023

Ethol LPD, long shelf life extra long open times in trays, large print capacity, and able to use different dilutions foe cool tone or warm tone without a change in developing time. Plus, it's replenishable.

Tim Stapp · Jun 26, 2023

Plus, it's replenishable.

This!!!

I keep my working solution in a 1 gallon bottle and replenisher in a wine bag, Lasts a very long time.

cliveh · Jun 26, 2023

David R Williams said:
I've been using a 2 litre glass bottle of working solution Ilford Multigrade developer (1:9 dilution) for months.

I top off the bottle once I finish a printing session with more 1:9 working strength solution to completely fill the bottle to the rim, and I've noticed no drop-off in image emergence time, tonal separation, maximum black, or any need to adopt factorial development adjustments. I don't tend to print a lot at one time, so using the developer this way is super economical and still provides the qualities that I'm used to.

I would second Ilford Multigrade developer, as if kept from oxidation it will last years.

Patrick Robert James · Jun 26, 2023

You just need to keep it from oxidizing like others have said. I use Butane or Bloxygen. It also helps to keep it in glass bottles, but thick HDPE seems to work as well. I've used developer more than a year after mixing it.

otto.f · Jun 28, 2023

Moersch eco 4812, Deep blacks, long shelf life

logan2z · Jun 28, 2023

Thanks for all of the recommendations. I was replenishing Ilford Multigrade developer in my Nova slot processor when I was using it, but I was following the Nova directions and doing that every 8 sheets of 8x10 paper which - to my mind - somewhat defeated the purpose of the Nova. It didn't take me long to put 8 sheets of paper through the developer. I'm back to trays now and the developer does seem to oxidize pretty quickly during use. Based on the recommendations in this thread, I may give Ethol LPD a try and see how that goes.

brian steinberger · Jun 28, 2023

john_s · Jun 28, 2023

logan2z said:
Thanks for all of the recommendations. I was replenishing Ilford Multigrade developer in my Nova slot processor when I was using it, but I was following the Nova directions and doing that every 8 sheets of 8x10 paper which - to my mind - somewhat defeated the purpose of the Nova. It didn't take me long to put 8 sheets of paper through the developer. I'm back to trays now and the developer does seem to oxidize pretty quickly during use. Based on the recommendations in this thread, I may give Ethol LPD a try and see how that goes.

I use a Nova and it surprised me how much developer is absorbed by FB paper, and because the level has to be kept fairly constant there needs to be frequent topping up. Of course, just as much is absorbed in a tray, but you don't notice it as much. My Nova holds 2L and I make up 3L of ID-78, using 1L for topping up. The developer stays quite constant in activity with this amount of topping up. Fortunately mixing up the ID-78 is relatively cheap.

BryanFlnt · Jun 29, 2023

lantau said:
I'm using a slot processor with replenishment, which is beneficial for keeping developer for long periods/indefinitely.

Can you share you replenishment routine?
Do you keep the chemicals in the slot processor between sessions or transfer to closed containers?
I have a NOVA slot processor with small PVC tubes that cover the chemicals.
Thanks.

john_s · Jun 29, 2023

BryanFlnt said:
Can you share you replenishment routine?
Do you keep the chemicals in the slot processor between sessions or transfer to closed containers?
I have a NOVA slot processor with small PVC tubes that cover the chemicals.
Thanks.

I'm of the opinion that the PVC tubes don't seal well enough, so instead I just use ordinary kitchen plastic film. I top up with the same developer, but theoretically I should mix up something like a replenisher (something like the developer with a bit more of the two dveloping agents plus a bit more carbonate, and no bromide of course). But the straight developer works well enough for me, probably because the rate of repenishment, to keep the level correct, is fairly high. I should measure it. This is for FB paper. RC paper would be different as it's not absorbent like FB paper. My printing is a bit intermittent, so I'm not aiming for a "forever replenishment system."

BMbikerider · Jun 29, 2023

When you say 'it goes off too quickly' is an open statement. Do you mean the concentrate 'goes off' when still in the container or it exhausts too quickly when in use, or if left diluted in an open dish? with the two latter points all developers have a finite life when in and open dish used or unused in a part empty bottle.

If it is the concentrate 'goes off' in a part used bottle the same applies but this can be held at bay very successfully if the bottle is split into convenient quantities and stored in glass screw top bottles. I always buy Ilford MG in 5 litre containers and immediately split it into 10 x 500cc bottles when I come to use a new bottle I further split it into either 100cc or 150cc bottles and use one per session. 100cc makes 1 litre of working solution enough for a 10x12 tray. A 150cc bottle is used for 12x16 prints.

I am about to start another 500cc bottle which was decanted close to 8 months ago and I fully expect the developer to be the same colour as when I first opened the 5litre container. From my experience I doubt if treated this way you will be very hard pushed to get a better working paper developer.

I don't know how much MG developer costs in the states but a 1 litre bottle would cost me about £14 in UK so 5 separate litres would be £70 I can buy a 5 litre container full for around £39 so that is a huge saving.

BryanFlnt · Jun 29, 2023

john_s said:
I'm of the opinion that the PVC tubes don't seal well enough, so instead I just use ordinary kitchen plastic film. I top up with the same developer, but theoretically I should mix up something like a replenisher (something like the developer with a bit more of the two dveloping agents plus a bit more carbonate, and no bromide of course). But the straight developer works well enough for me, probably because the rate of repenishment, to keep the level correct, is fairly high. I should measure it. This is for FB paper. RC paper would be different as it's not absorbent like FB paper. My printing is a bit intermittent, so I'm not aiming for a "forever replenishment system."

Thank you. Very helpful.

K-G · Jun 29, 2023

otto.f said:
Moersch eco 4812, Deep blacks, long shelf life

Absolutely ! It is also economical as you can dilute the concentrate 1:10 - 1:15 . If you have the working solution in a tray and place an identical empty tray on top as a floating lid after your working session , you can keep it for more than a month ( if you don't exhaust by working that is ).

Karl-Gustaf

logan2z · Jun 29, 2023

BMbikerider said:
When you say 'it goes off too quickly' is an open statement. Do you mean the concentrate 'goes off' when still in the container or it exhausts too quickly when in use, or if left diluted in an open dish? with the two latter points all developers have a finite life when in and open dish used or unused in a part empty bottle.

It seems to oxidize fairly quickly in open trays. I haven't experimented too much with storing it and re-using it over multiple print sessions, I was mainly going off of the Ilford data sheet that says:

Working strength MULTIGRADE developer, PQ UNIVERSAL and BROMOPHEN left in an open dish should not be kept for more than one working day. If stored in a tightly capped bottle they may last up to 24 hours.

That didn't give me confidence that the working strength developer would keep well in bottles between sessions.

BMbikerider · Jun 29, 2023

logan2z said:
It seems to oxidize fairly quickly in open trays. I haven't experimented too much with storing it and re-using it over multiple print sessions, I was mainly going off of the Ilford data sheet that says:

Working strength MULTIGRADE developer, PQ UNIVERSAL and BROMOPHEN left in an open dish should not be kept for more than one working day. If stored in a tightly capped bottle they may last up to 24 hours.

That didn't give me confidence that the working strength developer would keep well in bottles between sessions.

It isn't working strength developer that I keep in bottles it is the raw undiluted developer. Splitting a 5 litre container and not taking steps to prevent the remining developer to 'go off' is a no brainer. I have used the storage in 1/2 litre dark brown glass bottles for undiluted developer for perhaps close on 30 years with 100% success. I am coming to the end of one 5 litre container which I opened around 2 years ago and it is as good now as the day it was manufactured.
I almost always use a new solution of developer for each session, but if I have made only a couple of 10x9.5 prints one evening, then I have been known to finish off what I was doing the following day in the same developer which was left in an open dish.
It may be of interest that I always use water to dilute the developer concentrate that has been boiled and itself kept in a sealed container where it cools down. Boiling the water drives off the excess dissolved oxygen which may allow an extended developing life of the working solution.

otto.f · Jun 30, 2023

K-G said:
Absolutely ! It is also economical as you can dilute the concentrate 1:10 - 1:15 . If you have the working solution in a tray and place an identical empty tray on top as a floating lid after your working session , you can keep it for more than a month ( if you don't exhaust by working that is ).

Karl-Gustaf

Thanks for the tip!
Btw, Wolfgang Moersch is a very polite and modest man. He claims his eco 4812 as probably the best warmtone developer in the world. I use it for neutral paper too (Bergger) and the blacks are indeed neutral with that paper.

ECO 4812 | Wolfgang Moersch Photochemie

www.moersch-photochemie.de

Any suggestions for a paper developer with good longevity?

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