Any POP type papers out there

[mark]

I noticed that Centenial POP was gone. Is there any thing out there that is similar. I liked the look and the ease, as well as the variations in final color one could get with different toners.

I also liked that I did not have to have a special light set up or an enlarger.

 

[pgomena]

None left unless you want to coat your own paper. See Ziatype at www.bostick-sullivan.com

Peter Gomena

 

[ntenny]

The thread at (there was a url link here which no longer exists) explored several options for turning "regular" paper into POP, some of which sounded quite feasible and one or two of which were actually carried out by participants in the thread.

-NT

 

[steven_e007]

Kentmere were one of the last producers of POP. When Ilford took them over, they dropped POP as they reckoned they could not make it and stay within their Health and Safety rules. Consequently... it is no more

You can make it yourself, but it doesn't keep or perform as well as the Kentmere stuff did. They obviously knew a few tricks we don't.

So, Ilford, if you don't intend ever to make it, rather than let the knowledge die with Kentmere...

How about a few hints? Or why not publish the formula, even?

 

[Ian Grant]

Steve, there are a lot of POP formulae around, I'm going to give some to Kirk Keyes in the next week or so, who will share them with Denise Ross (The Light Farm) and the idea is that they put them on their respective websites, so anyone can access them.

I don't think Ilford can make the Kentmere POP formula public as it may well belong in part to a third party, originally it was made by Guilleminot in France for The Chicago Albumen Works, when they closed Kentmere took on it's manufacture for C.A.W..

Ian

 

[mark]

Darn!

Is there a reddish warm toned paper out there?

 

[Guillaume Zuili]

Yes but Guilleminot doesn't exist anymore. They closed down maybe 15 years ago or so. Could be on public domain ? No ?

 

[Ian Grant]

Yes but Guilleminot doesn't exist anymore. They closed down maybe 15 years ago or so. Could be on public domain ? No ?

Guilleminot, what a terrible word to spell They manufactured to "The Chicago Albumen Works" formula so although they might have had to tweak it slightly it wasn't theirs. Same goes for Kentmere/Ilford.

Ilford made POP themselves for a great many years (nearly 100), they were still selling it in Education kits in the late 70's or early 80's, then they moved every thing to Mobberley. The Health & Safety issue is almost certainly because the coated paper potentially contaminates everything with Silver Nitrate and demands thorough strip down and cleaning of everything that's been in contact, a costly time consuming process.

Simon Galley has posted that the sales of Kentmere manufactured POP were very very low, the cost of R&D to to try & re-introduce it using current plant would never be recovered in profits on sales, & then Health & Safety makes it a no go anyway.

I'll get back to sorting the Formulae for making your own

Ian

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Ian,

What is the advantage of POP over conventional silver gelatin papers?

Tom

 

[Ian Grant]

POP is self masking as it's exposed so was very good for early wet plate negatives, in fact the only way to get the best results in some cases.

It's major use more recently has been for making prints from early negatives held in museums and private collections, not much has been used by individual photographers.

Modern wet plate users have more controls, early users had none, no meters, limited experience to start with etc

Ian

 

[Michael Kadillak]

I would suggest using Lodima as it is similarly a contact paper and has some tonal variability between cold and warm using KBR and it tones well. I actually feel that it is better than Azo which it replaced.

Remember, the same thing that happened with POP happened earlier with Azo. The difference is that Michael Smith and Paula Chamlee would not let Azo die and spearheaded the effort to insure its replacement. Lodima is in production as we speak with delivery shortly.

Contact Michael directly (michaelandpaula.com) and he can fill you in on the details. Wonderful feeling supporting solutions absent the frail infrastructure we have about us in the conventional photographic arena.

Cheers!

 

[Ian Grant]

Remember, the same thing that happened with POP happened earlier with Azo. The difference is that Michael Smith and Paula Chamlee would not let Azo die and spearheaded the effort to insure its replacement. Lodima is in production as we speak with delivery shortly.
Cheers!

POP and Azo/Lodima aren't that similar at all in practice, except for both being contact papers

Another huge difference is there's significant demand for an Azo replacement, Lodima, this makes it economic to manufacture.

Once there was a choice of POP's as can be seen by this 1898 avert.

Ian

 

[steven_e007]

Well, yes I suppose there is no reason for Ilford to have to worry about other people's copyrights on formulas, they will surely have all the knowledge they (We!) need in their knowledge banks going back a hundred years or so! Maybe we don't really need the Kentmere formula as without the factory and the production techniques it may not be so useful as we might hope - but it would be nice to know how to make POP stable and increase the shelf life and so on...

If there is genuinly too small a demand to start up any sort of production ever again, for Ilford or anyone else, then where is the harm in releasing some knowledge?

So much technology dies when companies go under and product cease to be marketed. How many gems have we lost? There isn't much any single photographer can do about something like polaroid film or ektachrome, but so many wonderful developers have died with thier manufacturers or been withdrawn that could have been self mixed

I wonder if it would be feasible for someone from Ilford to give a talk on emulsions at the next open day? Maybe answering a few questions and dropping a few hints for emulsion makers?
We know how very supportive Ilford are of their customers, that would be a different, but bold, type of support. In the same way that they organise competitions and exhibitions it is doesn't directly make them any profit, but it can only help increase the enthusiasm for analogue photography... just a thought.

 

[BarryWilkinson]

There may be something of interest here