Any news on Lodima Fine Art/Azo? [assorted speculation]

[User Removed]

well gang, I see Dagor 77 has just posted 2 500 sheet boxes of grade 4 Azo....

...and we were thinking that the 11x14 sold for a high price, wait till you see these. I must say... I might have to take part in the bidding war for a box.

 

[Alex Hawley]

well gang, I see Dagor 77 has just posted 2 500 sheet boxes of grade 4 Azo....

Good Grief! How long has that stuff been out of production?

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

And does grade 4 have the keeping properties of the softer grades?

 

[User Removed]

And does grade 4 have the keeping properties of the softer grades?

I don't believe as well. I've used some G4 in the past and it matched G3 nearly perfect. I still have about 15 sheets of it left. I also have some G1 that is of the same age, and that seems to still be about what G1 azo would look like.

 

[sanking]

Well, in spite of the fact that everyone is now out of the business of making silver chloride papers there is still an apparent high level of interest in the product, as evidenced by the demand for existing AZO stock and the willinginess of many to plop down a lot of money in the hope that Lodima will be a suitable substitute.

That being the case, I wonder why one of the few remaining players, Ilford for example, don't step up to the plate to satisfy the market with a high quality silver chloride paper? If anyone out there could make a good product it is Ilford.

Sandy King

 

[michael9793]

If michael and Paula had a life supplly do you think they would go to the expense and time to make lodima paper? No! I have a 1000 sheets of 8x10 Gr2 and the same in gr3. I have 500 sheets of 20x24 Gr2 for my 8x20. but my negatives are not contrasty enought to use the grade two. So Like most of you I have been trying different papers. Yes I just got to like forte and guess what ? maybe I should stop liking papers since the last three I liked are now no longer being made.

 

[Scott Peters]

Sandy, I have wondered the same thing. I asked Kentmere and they said something about coating issues and 'not enough demand'...let's hope Michael and Paula come through soon....

Not sure why Ilford hasn't looked into this....perhaps Simon can pitch in here?

 

[pelerin]

Well, in spite of the fact that everyone is now out of the business of making silver chloride papers there is still an apparent high level of interest in the product, as evidenced by the demand for existing AZO stock and the willinginess of many to plop down a lot of money in the hope that Lodima will be a suitable substitute.

That being the case, I wonder why one of the few remaining players, Ilford for example, don't step up to the plate to satisfy the market with a high quality silver chloride paper? If anyone out there could make a good product it is Ilford.

Sandy King

Perhaps a poll (like the ULF interest on) showing what sizes, grades, and quantities folks were interested in would help. Obviously Simon was aware of the other poll and the group was able to influence the offering (e.g., w/ regard to 4x10). However, they are already making film and it is simply a custom cutting operation, engineering and manufacturing a new paper would seem to be a problem of much greater scope. I wonder if there really is market of sufficient size to make it economically sensible.
Celac.

 

[jgjbowen]

Grade 4

Good Grief! How long has that stuff been out of production?

A quick search of the Azo forum indicates Kodak discontinued grade 4 sometime around 1997.

 

[sanking]

Sandy, I have wondered the same thing. I asked Kentmere and they said something about coating issues and 'not enough demand'...let's hope Michael and Paula come through soon....

Not sure why Ilford hasn't looked into this....perhaps Simon can pitch in here?

I wonder if the coating issues are not related to the relatively thin stock that Michael and Paula like for their own work. I understand from PE that using stock this thin introduces some coating problems that would not exist with a thicker paper. I don't personally know why Michael and Paula prefer the single weight paper, but I personally would be much happier with a double weight paper.

Sandy

 

[jgjbowen]

I think I read on the Azo Forum where Michael stated Grade 4 and grade 5 didn't have the same long shelf life as grade 2 and 3....then again it could have been here on APUG and PE who made that statement....I hate getting old!

 

[Alex Hawley]

I wonder if the coating issues are not related to the relatively thin stock that Michael and Paula like for their own work. I understand from PE that using stock this thin introduces some coating problems that would not exist with a thicker paper. I don't personally know why Michael and Paula prefer the single weight paper, but I personally would be much happier with a double weight paper.

Sandy

I found that once I started using single weight that I liked it quite well. Going back to double weight seemed a bit cumbersome. But its not that big a deal to me. According to PE, the double weight is easier to run on the machines-far less scrap; and it can be run at much faster speeds.

 

[Photo Engineer]

The issues include the thin support, the tint of the support and the bad results that M&P have getten so far when they scaled it up. It apparently did not scale well in their chosen facility.

PE

 

[Scott Peters]

Well, if it's double weight or nothing....I would gladly settle for double weight...

PE, I am assuming that double weight would help mitigate some of these 'issues"?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Scott;

It really depends a lot on paper quality, coating speed, applied 'wet' material, machine drying capacity. I just can't say for them how bad or good it might be.

I've said it before... It is like a high speed web of wet tissue paper running through a machine. (not that bad really, but not good)

Anyhow, tearoffs and other problems rise as thickness of the paper goes down, and thickness of the wet emulsion goes up.

PE

 

[jgjbowen]

It's getting a little expensive to stock up on Azo. The same person just purchased 2 500 sheet boxes of old grade 4 Azo. The first box went for $1,725 and the second went for $1,135.

That seems like a lot of $$ for what will probably prove to be grade 3 Azo.

 

[User Removed]

It's getting a little expensive to stock up on Azo. The same person just purchased 2 500 sheet boxes of old grade 4 Azo. The first box went for $1,725 and the second went for $1,135.

That seems like a lot of $$ for what will probably prove to be grade 3 Azo.

Wow. That is all I can say.

After testing some of the same age G4 myself, and others I know who have tested it as well...we all found it to be nearly EXACT to G3.

I hope Michael and Paula do not see this and think they can get away with selling the new Lodima for this much!

 

[jgjbowen]

Keep in mind this is the "spot" price, and while there is someone who is willing to pay this much, you obviously wouldn't be able to sell a thousand 500 sheet boxes for this much...

Maybe Michael and Paula will see this and auction some of their grade 3 stash to help pay for Lodima...

 

[Alex Hawley]

I just finished print-testing several papers. Haven't toned nor dried them yet, but I can say without hesitation there are good alternatives available to the Azo/Amidol routine, in both developers and papers. I'll provide an in-depth thread in several days on what I think.

Folks, take a look at the Slavich paper, available from Freestyle. I think its very promising. Comes in single weight as well as double weight, grades 2, 3, and 4. I've just been playing with grade 3. More to follow in a few days.

If the Lodima paper comes to be, I'm sure it will be good. Until then, I'm not waiting nor wishing for the promised magic bullet, nor crying for the good ol' days of Azo. Azo is gone, and once these secret (and now very expensive) stashes are gone, there will be no more ever again. I've a mind to sell off the few sheets of Grade 3 I have. Any takers? (PS-I plan to profit on it.)

 

[jgjbowen]

Alex,

I and I'm sure many others look forward to your post....

 

[jgjbowen]

Does anyone know who Bluelester is on Ebay? I see this photographer is located in San Francisco. So far in February alone this photographer has spent $4,373 plus shipping to acquire 1,900 sheets of 8x10 Azo.

I guess Bluelester isn't waiting for Lodima.

 

[Alex Hawley]

No idea who Bluelester is. Everyone should spend their money as the see fit. If my prints were selling at $500 to $1000 each, and I were selling fifty to a hundred per year, I'd be buying as much Azo as I could right now. But, as it stands ------.

 

[Curt]

How much is two unopened 500 sheet boxes of grade 3 worth? I may just put them up for sale on the bay to help finance my sons college.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Three older threads speculating about Lodima merged. This thread is separate from the thread with official reports from Michael A. Smith and member responses to those reports and impressions of the paper itself--

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)