Any experience with Ilford Ortho plus or with ADOX ortho 25?

[Lachlan Young]

Does anyone have any practical experience with either Ilford's Ortho plus film or with ADOX ortho 25? I would quite like to try these films for some LF portraiture in 4x5 and was wondering what sort of safelight to use and which developers to use. I believe the Ilford is like a normal non document film just minus the red sensitivity but I am less sure about the ADOX.

All help much appreciated,

Lachlan

 

[Ryuji]

Ilford film can be developed in normal developers, but it tends to build contrast rather quickly as development extends, compared to other Ilford films or most other b&w films we are familiar with. So I'd be a bit careful in controlling temp, time and such.

Safelight for ortho films should be dark red. Check with manufacturer's information sheet if in doubt. The spectral sensitization may be done only up to green light but deeply sensitized emulsions have some intrinsic sensitivity to yellow to red range, though the sensitivity is not photographically useful in camera, so keep the safelight dim, especially at the beginning.

 

[Gerald Koch]

Be aware that ortho films will emphacize skin blemishes and are considered unflattering for portraiture at least for female subjects.

 

[David H. Bebbington]

Ilford Ortho is "meant" to be a copy film for b+w continuous-tone originals. It is possible to tame the inherent contrast by exposing at about EI 20 in daylight (or with flash) and cutting development down from the Ilford recommendations for copying. The spectral response of the film seems (from the Ilford data sheet) to stop in the middle of the green area, which makes it a little difficult to use with any subject with a full color range. Specifically in the case of portraiture, as I see Gerald Koch has already remarked, the lack of red response will mean that any skin redness, spots, blood vessels below the skin surface, etc. will photograph dark, which may means the results are unflattering. Try it and see if you like the results!

 

[Aggie]

Are you planning on a negative image once you print? Ortho film will give you a positive rather than a negative, then print a negative instead of a positive.

If your safe light is yellow and not directly overhead, you can develop ortho film with it. It takes a long time for an effect from a yellow safe light to do anything to the film before it would be fully developed. Also just use your paper developer highly diluted to develop it in. The more you agitate it the more contrast, so this is a good one for stand development. You are able to watch the development, if you use a white tray to develop it in. If not take an old photo that has been fully wahsed, but that you don't care about, and lay it with the back side up in the bottom of the developing tray to get the white background to watch it on. I'm a firm believer in the KISS (keep it simple stupid) system. Too many people want to make it more difficult than it is, and put all sorts of cavets on the process. Yes there are certain nuances you need to know about, but those are something you would visually have to see in person to understand.

 

[Aggie]

I have worked with Ilford, Adox, Arista, Bergger, and the old Kodak ortho/graphic film. Arista is fine to learn on, but is a bear to work with. It's cheap and thus a good learning film. To me the two top films are Ilford and Bergger, with Bergger being my most favorite. Bergger is so easy to work with, that you wonder after using it why you would use any other. Ilford is very close, and a bit cheaper than the Bergger. Actually the best is really out of date old Kodak graphic/ortho film

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Aggie,

How does the ortho give you a positive?

Yellow will fog it; you need red. Weak red at that. If you've got away with yellow, I'm surprised.

Agitation increases development; so does higher temperature; so does more time. Why recommend stand development?

I treat Ortho Plus like pan film, i.e. time and temperature; but as my friends at Ilford said, 'It's also useful for those who are afraid of the dark'.

Great still life film.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[Aggie]

Guess I throw out thousands of enlarged negatives that I have done using these films, doing exactly what I have said above. I do mean thousands over the last 6 years. With just a yellow safe light.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Aggie,

Ah... Enlarged negatives. That's not 'giving you a positive'. That's 'giving you a positive when you enlarge a negative' or 'giving you a negative if you enlarge a positive'.

Put it in the camera and you get a negative... As Lachlan was asking about camera use, I answered his question.

As I said, I am surprised at the yellow safelight. I see no reason why you would lie, so it must work. On the other hand, I'd recommend red, and so would Ilford.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[Papa Tango]

Are you planning on a negative image once you print? Ortho film will give you a positive rather than a negative, then print a negative instead of a positive.

Ummmm, perhaps you are thinking of Kodalith type 3 high contrast halftone/line films, as an intermediate? Otherwise, I cannot think of any Ortho film ever made that took a picture of a positive and created another positive (in the ortho stage). Ortho(chromatic) films are simply ones that are relatively insensitive to red, irrespective of their contrast or reversal characteristics. See the chart attached below.

Control of the Ilford is as David suggests, as the film is normally rated 80 daylight, 40 tungsten. If high contrast is what one seeks, the film can be developed in Ilford Multigrade paper developer. "Normal" contrast is recommended ID-11, and for the best contrast and resolution, use Ilford Phenosol.

Maco ORT25C is supposedly a close match for Kodak TechPan 25, possibly the best ultra-fine grain ortho copy and architectural films ever made. You may want to give this a shot. Great for landscape, need filters for portraiture.

 

[Aggie]

yep I screwed up on the positive thing, I was thinking of the enlarged negatives not standard ways. BUT!!!!! the yellow safe light does work. It takes nearly 3 full minutes for the film to fog enough for a flat image while holding it at arms length next to a yellow safe light to get that base fog. That's 3 full minutes and I was probably holding it about 12 inches from the source, which had a 15 watt bulb inside the safe light. OC filter. When you are further from the source it takes even longer. When developing in Dektol it takes from 90 seconds to 150 seconds to develop. That is plenty of leeway to have the image on the film develop before any possible fog would happen.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Aggie,

Great! Thanks for the good figures on wattage/distance/time. If it takes that long to fog with a yellow/brown, red must be REALLY safe.

Whose OC is it? They do vary, in my experience.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[Jim Noel]

Are you planning on a negative image once you print? Ortho film will give you a positive rather than a negative, then print a negative instead of a positive.

If your safe light is yellow and not directly overhead, you can develop ortho film with it. It takes a long time for an effect from a yellow safe light to do anything to the film before it would be fully developed. Also just use your paper developer highly diluted to develop it in. The more you agitate it the more contrast, so this is a good one for stand development. You are able to watch the development, if you use a white tray to develop it in. If not take an old photo that has been fully wahsed, but that you don't care about, and lay it with the back side up in the bottom of the developing tray to get the white background to watch it on. I'm a firm believer in the KISS (keep it simple stupid) system. Too many people want to make it more difficult than it is, and put all sorts of cavets on the process. Yes there are certain nuances you need to know about, but those are something you would visually have to see in person to understand.

There are so many untrue statements in here it is dangerous.
1. Orthochromatic films DO NOT PRODUCE POSITIVES, unless special development techniques are used.
2. A yellow safelight will fog ortho films as quickly as they will Pan films.

 

[MattKing]

Boy, this thread is a blast from the past!