Any clever methods for flattening curled 35mm film?

js98367 · Dec 29, 2016

I process 35mm film at home then scan it in an Epson 4990. The negative holder is open, glass-less, and films that do not dry flat, without a sprocket to sprocket curl, touch the scanner glass and create Newton's Rings on the final product.

Ilford and Fomapan products tend to dry flat and scan cleanly. Kodak and others consistently dry with a pronounced curl that always touches the glass.

When I shoot curly film, I cut it into strips of six negatives, put them in a Print File plastic negative holder sheet, then compress them under a few heavy books for a couple of days. At that point the curl is shallow enough to clear the glass.

Any suggestions concerning processing, drying or other flattening techniques to speed time from dry negatives to scanner?

John near Seattle

R.Gould · Dec 29, 2016

I don't know of any other methods of flattening curled film, all I have ever done is to press the filed films between some weight for a day or two

Konical · Dec 29, 2016

Good Afternoon, John,

I've had a somewhat different experience: For me, Kodak film ordinarily dries without much of a curl at all; Fomapan (the 200 stuff) dries with a pronounced curl. I don't use a lot of Ilford, but I can't recall any problem.
The simplest solution I've found for curly film is to put it back on the processing reel REVERSED (emulsion out instead of in) and just let it rest for a few days. Obviously, that won't work too well if you're in a hurry, but it seems to be an effective solution otherwise.

Konical

Anon Ymous · Dec 29, 2016

Put them in a reel, emulsion side out for few days. IME, Kodak films aren't particularly curly, but I always make sure that whatever clip I use to hang the film grabs the full length of it, at both the top and bottom end. Apart from that, too low humidity and - or too high temperature makes things worse.

Sirius Glass · Dec 29, 2016

Hang a weight on the bottom of the film while it is drying.
Do not let the humidity get low, run a steamy shower if necessary.
Make sure the film is completely dry, cut and store in PrintFile sheets, under a heavy book if necessary.

jvo · Dec 29, 2016

before i moved to 120, i don't remember having a curl problem with 35mm... develop and hung to dry with a weight... 24 hours later put in print file.. do the same with tri-x in 120 format, no problem... i do use a heavy weight on the film.

js98367 · Dec 30, 2016

Thanks, Everyone.

I weight the wet film strip evenly and get different film-specific results. I monitor humidity for my violin and we tend to stay around 50% in the rainy Seattle area even in heated homes which, in less humid areas, tend to desiccate everything and everyone in lower humidity climates. I will continue to book flatten the curled negatives but try some of the ideas on reverse film insertion, emulsion side out, on my reels in a plastic bag.

Happy New Year!

paladin1420 · Dec 30, 2016

I usually put the film in a negative sleeve after it dries and then put the sleeve between the pages of a large coffee table book, and put some weight on the book. After a couple of days the curl is pressed out. Different films curl in different degrees and directions so some take longer. I also usually scan the sleeve as a "contact" sheet to review while the film flattens.

chuck94022 · Dec 31, 2016

You might also consider either a better film holder or at least an ANR glass insert to hold your film flat in the scanner. Curled film won't ever scan well. Follow the link for the best you can do with an Epson flatbed.

http://www.betterscanning.com/scanning/models/4990.html

LAG · Dec 31, 2016

js98367 said:
Any suggestions concerning processing, drying or other flattening techniques to speed time from dry negatives to scanner?

Suggestions to speed time? ... In my opinion the cleverest way to flatten the negatives are the ones that does not damage the negatives - as a starting point -, but also the ones that can avoid the risk to include the dust to flatten with it, those should be done and very well controlled in the drying step, not from then on. Unfortunately all of them need some time.

Happy new year to you too!

TheTrailTog · Dec 31, 2016

I tend to get a lot of curl with Tri-X. I weight the bottom while drying. Then after it's cut and put into Printfile sleeves, I roll the Printfile page lengthwise and stick it in a paper towel roll for a couple days.

Loren Sattler · Jan 1, 2017

I get a lot of curl with Tri-X in 35mm, but almost no curl with 120 film. The negatives are put into Print File pages and then into a folder and require several months to totally flatten the negatives. I plan to try storing under weight.

I use a glass carrier in a Leitz Focomat IC which solves the issue for enlarging. With a glassless carrier in a Beseler enlarger I had issues with film flatness for years.

bence8810 · Jan 2, 2017

In Tokyo it all depends on the season. Humid summers mean no curl, dry winters bring a lot of curl to drying film.
I have started reverse rolling film when it has a curl and just put them into a 100ft film can overnight. This seems to do the trick.

Good luck!
Ben

removed account4 · Jan 2, 2017

i'm not sure what i do is clever, but
i have some films so curly it is nearly impossible to do anything
with them, so they go into a plastic print file sleeve, and under a stack
of other negative sleeves for a while, or the glass that i use to do contact printing.
it usually helps a little bit.

nosmok · Jan 2, 2017

I put mine in the Print-File sleeves and put them under a stack of phone books for a week or so. One dead technology flattens another!

Colin Corneau · Jan 2, 2017

bence8810 said:
In Tokyo it all depends on the season. Humid summers mean no curl, dry winters bring a lot of curl to drying film.
I have started reverse rolling film when it has a curl and just put them into a 100ft film can overnight. This seems to do the trick.

Good luck!
Ben

This is actually pretty clever! I've normally pressed the page of negs under heavy photobooks...or have had good luck reverse-rolling it onto a reel.

My experience echos the OP's -- Ilford film dries flat and Kodak (especially Tri-X) really curls quite a lot.

M. Axel Wikstrom · Jan 3, 2017

I've used the force of gravity coupled with the mass of some large books + time.

Helinophoto · Jan 4, 2017

My experience is to put the curly film in plastic-sleeves and keep them in my negative-folder, under the weight off all my other, helpless analog attempts, after a few days, they are more flat.

Also, I scanned some old negatives for a friend of mine, she had kept a few strips inside the 35mm canisters. Needless to say, those negatives were like springs. Solution was to get them onto a reel and soak the film in water for 5-10 minutes, then hang to dry as regular films. Straight as an arrow, no problem.

My Rollei Ortho 25 that I shot 3,5 years ago, is still "that page" in my folder that always give me a problem when skimming trough.....for some reason, it will never become flat, ever

mgb74 · Jan 4, 2017

I wonder if we're talking about different types of curl. I've experienced film that wants to curl back on itself like in the canister (usually not much of a problem), film that wants to spiral, and (worst in my opinion) film that curves from one side to the other.

This last version is what I find most common and the most difficult to deal with in standard Epson holders - especially in 120. The Nikon MF scanner holders are a bit better.

I've pretty much given up try to deal with curled film until it's had a good while to flatten.

ndrs · Jan 4, 2017

Keeping the film rolled emulsion out before cutting it for a few days helps a lot. Several films can be rolled together.
Tiny clothes pegs are handy for keeping the rolls tight.

AgX · Jan 4, 2017

Anon Ymous said:
I always make sure that whatever clip I use to hang the film grabs the full length of it, at both the top and bottom end.

But has that an effect on the range at the center between the clips too? If there is still curl one basically has not benefitted.

Anon Ymous · Jan 4, 2017

AgX said:
But has that an effect on the range at the center between the clips too? If there is still curl one basically has not benefitted.

I'm neither entirely sure I expressed myself properly, nor about what you mean.

Anyway, let me explain. I shoot 135 film and when I hang it to dry, I fold the top edge of it from the string and secure it with a paper binder clip like this

which is what I also use at the bottom end. They provide adequate weight and keep film straight. The clips I use are wider than 35mm and fully catch the width of the film at both ends. If I had used narrower clips, then I'd probably have increased curl from one sprocket area to the other. It wouldn't make it look like spring, but it would still be problematic, especially with some film scanner holders. I hope it became clearer now.

But regardless of all of these, if the film is cut before getting fully dry, then IME curl is inevitable.

AgX · Jan 4, 2017

Such clips spread the film, but likely only at its ends, not at the center (depending of course on the lenght of the strip to be dried).

klownshed · Jan 5, 2017

I have a Lomography Digitalizer film holder that does a pretty decent job of holding the film flat(ter) for scanning. It clamps the films on all edges and whilst it can't totally eliminate curl it does prevent the film touching the scanning bed in my experience. It's certainly a lot better with curly film than Epson's supplied holders (at least better than the ones I got with my V700).

I also dry the film in a film cabinet with weighted Paterson clip on the bottom and that also helps a lot. After a period of trying lots of different films, I've pretty much settled upon Ilford HP5+ as my go to 400 speed film and as you mentioned, Ilford film tends to dry nice and flat.

Peter Schrager · Jan 5, 2017

Helinophoto said:
My experience is to put the curly film in plastic-sleeves and keep them in my negative-folder, under the weight off all my other, helpless analog attempts, after a few days, they are more flat.

Also, I scanned some old negatives for a friend of mine, she had kept a few strips inside the 35mm canisters. Needless to say, those negatives were like springs. Solution was to get them onto a reel and soak the film in water for 5-10 minutes, then hang to dry as regular films. Straight as an arrow, no problem.

My Rollei Ortho 25 that I shot 3,5 years ago, is still "that page" in my folder that always give me a problem when skimming trough.....for some reason, it will never become flat, ever

Add foma 100 in 35mm to the list..

Any clever methods for flattening curled 35mm film?

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