Any advice on the ( OROW Ortho ) film ISO 50

mohmad khatab · Aug 4, 2021

It is a repackaged film, it was in a very large reel Expired -
one of the merchants bought it and repacked it in used cassettes, it is sold in Egypt at a cheap price now.
- This movie was filmed at ISO 12 and the lens aperture was 8 . the whole time
Canon EOS 500N
This film was developed using a developer (Kalogen) at a 1:50 dilution ratio for 13 minutes at 20°C.
- Is there any advice on this emulsion,
Are there any tips on how to get red and green .kind to be acceptable or something like that.
I thank you all in advance for your kindness,
God bless you

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Aug 4, 2021

What exactly do you need help on?

Donald Qualls · Aug 4, 2021

An ortho film will never record red well -- it's almost (if not completely) blind to light we'd call red. When introduced, a hundred years or so ago, orthochromatic films were a revolution because they'd record skin tones with a more natural look than the earlier blue-sensitive emulsions. Today, we're more accustomed to panchromatic films, and ortho is used for special effects (dark lips, for instance, in white-skinned portrait subjects). The main advantage it has is the ability to develop under red safelight, hence very easy developing by inspection (handy for wildly unpredictable exposure conditions). This also makes it handy for making interpositives and copy negatives from black and white materials.

Number one tip: avoid red filters. They'll give blank or nearly blank frames.

Bazza D · Aug 4, 2021

With Ortho films I find that subject selection is important. I tend to use it for a high contrast look. The skies will mostly be overexposed, reds will be black, and greens a bit stronger. Some people like it for landscapes. Also, the film you have sounds like Orwo TF12d which is sound recording film for movies. Not meant or balanced for pictorial use. I have attached a couple pictures I took with Kodak 2378 which is the Kodak equivalent to Orwo TF12d. I think Ortho films like are fun to shoot but I never expect a standard picture from them. I would set my expectations for what the film does and have fun.

mohmad khatab · Aug 6, 2021

God bless you guys,,
Thanks for that great information.
But I had once read that maybe a yellow or orange or blue filter could be used, I don't remember, in order to try to make the film's sensitivity to red a little stronger so that it's a little semi-balanced,

AgX · Aug 6, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
When introduced, a hundred years or so ago, orthochromatic films were a revolution because they'd record skin tones with a more natural look than the earlier blue-sensitive emulsions.

That is why they even were called orthochromatic, which means: depicting colours rightfully

Today we see this differently...

Donald Qualls · Aug 6, 2021

mohmad khatab said:
But I had once read that maybe a yellow or orange or blue filter could be used, I don't remember, in order to try to make the film's sensitivity to red a little stronger so that it's a little semi-balanced,

A blue filter removes all red, yellow, and green -- you'll get effectively the same response you'd have with pre-ortho emulsions like wet plate collodion. A green, yellow, or orange removes most of the blue, giving effectively green-only sensitivity, which can be useful for certain effects in landscape photography (lightens foliage while darkening sky), but orange and red also remove much of the green, which reduces effective film speed without much if any gain.

I'd tend to use blue and green filters, if any, with ortho film. I'd avoid orange and red, and yellow is effectively the same as green on ortho film.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Aug 6, 2021

Mohmad, as you are shooting this film at EI:12, use of any filter will further make it harder to use the film for handheld shooting. Do you intend to use tripod?

mohmad khatab · Aug 6, 2021

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
Mohmad, as you are shooting this film at EI:12, use of any filter will further make it harder to use the film for handheld shooting. Do you intend to use tripod?

Yes, I recently got a tripod from my friend, the gynecologist, he is missing a small piece but I found it available at a dealer.

mohmad khatab · Aug 6, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
I'd tend to use blue and green filters, if any, with ortho film. I'd avoid orange and red, and yellow is effectively the same as green on ortho film.

Does this mean that using a blue filter is the best of the bad choices?

Donald Qualls · Aug 6, 2021

mohmad khatab said:
Does this mean that using a blue filter is the best of the bad choices?

It means that a blue filter will come closest to what you'd get with panchromatic film (because you're essentially eliminating all the sensitivity that makes these films different from pre-1880 emulsions). I can't say "best" because that depends very much on what you're after.

You can think of ortho film as having a built-in "minus-red" filter -- so any actual filter you use will be as if you installed it with a minus-red.

mohmad khatab · Aug 6, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
It means that a blue filter will come closest to what you'd get with panchromatic film (because you're essentially eliminating all the sensitivity that makes these films different from pre-1880 emulsions). I can't say "best" because that depends very much on what you're after.

You can think of ortho film as having a built-in "minus-red" filter -- so any actual filter you use will be as if you installed it with a minus-red.

This is the answer I was looking for..
God bless you
Thank you very much

mohmad khatab · Aug 6, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
It means that a blue filter will come closest to what you'd get with panchromatic film (because you're essentially eliminating all the sensitivity that makes these films different from pre-1880 emulsions). I can't say "best" because that depends very much on what you're after.

You can think of ortho film as having a built-in "minus-red" filter -- so any actual filter you use will be as if you installed it with a minus-red.

Do you remember the filter number?
Do you have any picture without the filter and another with the filter?
In any case, I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Aug 6, 2021

A blue filter for a blue-green ortho film will take the tonality farther away from that of panchromatic films that you're used to. Is that what you want? From your OP I got a sense that you wanted the opposite i.e. you wanted the tonality to be closer to that of panchromatic films.

Donald Qualls · Aug 6, 2021

mohmad khatab said:
Do you remember the filter number?
Do you have any picture without the filter and another with the filter?

There are blue filters with many numbers from different manufacturers. Look up any photo taken with wet plate collodion and you'll see a result close to what a blue filter will give -- both on ortho and on panchromatic film (because it's passing only the blue light, they get almost the same result).

The innovation of orthochromatic film was to get away from that look -- which emphasizes skin blemishes and freckles, paints skies white and most foliage dark, and records any eye color other than blue as virtually black. Ortho does the same on skin, but to a lesser extent; will record green and light brown eyes as much lighter than black ones, but still records red lips very dark -- though foliage will be lighter and a green filter can be used to darken skies.

mohmad khatab · Aug 16, 2021

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
A blue filter for a blue-green ortho film will take the tonality farther away from that of panchromatic films that you're used to. Is that what you want? From your OP I got a sense that you wanted the opposite i.e. you wanted the tonality to be closer to that of panchromatic films.

Yes, right, now you understood my question correctly.

mohmad khatab · Aug 16, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
There are blue filters with many numbers from different manufacturers. Look up any photo taken with wet plate collodion and you'll see a result close to what a blue filter will give -- both on ortho and on panchromatic film (because it's passing only the blue light, they get almost the same result).

The innovation of orthochromatic film was to get away from that look -- which emphasizes skin blemishes and freckles, paints skies white and most foliage dark, and records any eye color other than blue as virtually black. Ortho does the same on skin, but to a lesser extent; will record green and light brown eyes as much lighter than black ones, but still records red lips very dark -- though foliage will be lighter and a green filter can be used to darken skies.

Thank you my dear ..
This was my main query.
I wanted advice on trying to take pictures with this film so that we can get fairly balanced results that are close to (PAN) film, I don't want green or light brown eyes to be photographed as black. And I don't want my lips to get too dark.
- And that was my main question, is there any advice on using a specific filter that can make all the tonalities balanced as if the film is a natural (PAN) film?

Donald Qualls · Aug 17, 2021

One of the tricks used on motion pictures back when ortho films were much more economical than panchromatic was makeup that looked quite unnatural when seen in color. Find a color photo of the TV series Munsters to get an idea what this makeup looked like in some forms -- it was often either a grayscale itself, or replaced red (for lips and blush on light skin) with green (which ortho film shows as light). Nothing you can do about eyes, though ortho film will do a better job with brown or green eyes than blue-sensitive, in terms of darkening them less -- bright green eyes may actually record as light as the "grey" or very light blue sometimes seen in Nordic descended people.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Aug 18, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
One of the tricks used on motion pictures back when ortho films were much more economical than panchromatic was makeup that looked quite unnatural when seen in color. Find a color photo of the TV series Munsters to get an idea what this makeup looked like in some forms -- it was often either a grayscale itself, or replaced red (for lips and blush on light skin) with green (which ortho film shows as light). Nothing you can do about eyes, though ortho film will do a better job with brown or green eyes than blue-sensitive, in terms of darkening them less -- bright green eyes may actually record as light as the "grey" or very light blue sometimes seen in Nordic descended people.

In the present circumstances, it's cheaper to buy panchromatic film than do what you suggested.

Donald Qualls · Aug 19, 2021

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
In the present circumstances, it's cheaper to buy panchromatic film than do what you suggested.

Absolutely true. Here in the USA, in Europe, much of Asia -- but perhaps not in Egypt or the rest of Africa outside South Africa...

Any advice on the ( OROW Ortho ) film ISO 50

Attachments

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency