Any 5x7" field camera with a graflock back?

DREW WILEY · Jul 15, 2022

Thanks. But I've almost never start backpacks as low as Kennedy Mdw. I've often done brief tune-up hikes up Blue Canyon just below Sonora Pass, or day hikes up the string of Virginia Lakes, Green Creek too. Did help a couple beginner hikes into Emigrant Wilderness starting out low. But I'm more fond of higher country to the south of Yosemite NP, both east side and west side. San Joaquin, Kings, Kern headwaters. I'm most comfortable, personally and photographically, right around timberline. And pre-covid, besides the Wind Rivers and Ruby Mtns, I did a hundred-miler (cumulatively, in and out) along the LeConte Divide, 12 days up along the S. Fork of the Kings, and about the same length of time over the Clark Range and into the headwaters of the Lyell Fork of the Merced, along with Harriet lake basin, etc - real solitude country with very few signs of human presence except obsidian chips from ancient bighorn hunters. And just before that, one of my "crown jewel" bucket-list trips into Kaweah Basin involving two weeks, and likewise mostly sheer solitude for our party of 3. So I can't complain. But now heading into my mid-70's, I sure miss the really rugged off-trail scrambles I could formerly do with a heavy pack, even in the year I turned 70. But that's ten years more mileage than I thought I would get.

mshchem · Jul 15, 2022

Sal Santamaura said:
See attached image. I bought mine (new) around 20 years ago. How old is your SV57U? I've no idea why Hiromi would have included them on one version and not another.

That is beautiful!

Nicholas Lindan · Jul 15, 2022

I find the question to be a bit ambiguous...

I assume your 6x17 is made to mount on a 4x5 graflok back. If so, then I assume you are looking for a 5x7 camera that takes a 5x7->4x5 reducing back with 4x5 graflok fittings.

DREW WILEY · Jul 15, 2022

Thinking about it, I suspect this is all a misunderstanding. Apparently he thought there was some kind of 5x7 equivalent to "Graflok" which accepts a 6X17 holder. But it's different. Hypothetically putting a 6x12 back on a 4x5 reducer back would crop off a fair amount of image width. What would be the point?

Sal Santamaura · Jul 15, 2022

mshchem said:
That is beautiful!

I'll say "thank you" for Hiromi, whose craftsmanship was outstanding. All I did to the back was add a Maxwell screen topped by a Beattie AR-coated cover glass. When using f/5.6 lenses, it's almost bright enough to forego a viewing cloth, unless sunlight falls directly on the back.

grat · Jul 15, 2022

Nicholas Lindan said:
I find the question to be a bit ambiguous...

I assume your 6x17 is made to mount on a 4x5 graflok back. If so, then I assume you are looking for a 5x7 camera that takes a 5x7->4x5 reducing back with 4x5 graflok fittings.

Why would you assume that? First, the OP said:

I bought a 6x17 adapter for my 5x7 Sinar P back. (similar to the one in the picture)

And the one in the picture does NOT include the just about mandatory secondary ground glass for focusing, because a 6x17 back WILL NOT WORK directly attached to a 4x5 back-- 5 inches is 120mm, and a 6x17 requires 170mm of actual opening.

The only way to make this work is to extend the film plane some 30mm from the usual film plane. This however makes wide angle lenses (anything more than about 100mm) difficult to mount. Further, it limits you on the long end to about 210 (or less), due to vignetting.

This is the 6x17 back for 5x7:

This is the 6x17 back for 4x5 cameras:

Keith Pitman · Jul 15, 2022

Sal Santamaura said:
See attached image. I bought mine (new) around 20 years ago. How old is your SV57U? I've no idea why Hiromi would have included them on one version and not another.

I bought mine in 12/2010 slightly used. I don’t think the guy I bought it from used it for long. I guess we’ll never know why they were made in two forms. The 4x5 back that came with it had the Graflock sliders.

Oren Grad · Jul 16, 2022

DREW WILEY said:
Thinking about it, I suspect this is all a misunderstanding. Apparently he thought there was some kind of 5x7 equivalent to "Graflok" which accepts a 6X17 holder.

There is. It started with Keith Canham...

https://canhamcameras.com/Roll film back.html

...and then others followed.

serouscam · Jul 16, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
Not the same problem but when I bought my 4"x5" Graflex Model D it had the back modified with a rotation plate and accept the backs that are used on my Pacemaker Speed Graphic so I can just grab any film back or Grafmatic 45 for either camera.

There is no Model D, it is called Series D

Oren Grad · Jul 16, 2022

Sal Santamaura said:
See attached image. I bought mine (new) around 20 years ago. How old is your SV57U? I've no idea why Hiromi would have included them on one version and not another.

There would have been no reason to have sliders until Canham introduced his 6x17 roll holder, which I believe was around 2002-3. When did Hiromi start building 5x7 cameras?

BradS · Jul 16, 2022

serouscam said:
There is no Model D, it is called Series D

Ok, I think we all get the message now that you've said this exact thing 12 times in 12 different threads...12 posts out of the 13 you've made since joining earlier today....one wonders what the motivation is?

Sal Santamaura · Jul 16, 2022

Oren Grad said:
There would have been no reason to have sliders until Canham introduced his 6x17 roll holder, which I believe was around 2002-3. When did Hiromi start building 5x7 cameras?

I've no idea when he began to offer 5x7s. Around 20 years ago is the time frame when I bought mine (receipt sits in a bank safe deposit box / isn't readily viewable) and, if memory serves, 5x7 was a stock Ebony item for quite a while before my purchase.

Sirius Glass · Jul 16, 2022

serouscam said:
There is no Model D, it is called Series D

Do I now have to go back and edit posts for the last twenty years on multiple sites when the issue has never been raised before?

DREW WILEY · Jul 16, 2022

Oren. Keith couldn't call it a Graflok back, not that specific term. That's where the confusion lies. It was a tweak specific to his own camera, and hypothetically adaptable to other 5x7's. But "Graflok" implies a distinct kind of standardization, predictable brand to brand.

Oren Grad · Jul 16, 2022

DREW WILEY said:
Oren. Keith couldn't call it a Graflok back, not that specific term. That's where the confusion lies. It was a tweak specific to his own camera, and hypothetically adaptable to other 5x7's. But "Graflok" implies a distinct kind of standardization, predictable brand to brand.

Canham's "tweak" has in fact been adopted by several other camera and roll holder manufacturers and has become a de facto standard for mounting 6x17 roll holders on 5x7 cameras. The habit of referring to it as "Graflok" is arguably a loose usage of the term, but functionally it is a direct analog to 4x5 Graflok fittings, just in a larger size. If it makes you feel better, imagine "-style" attached whenever someone uses the term "Graflok" in discussing these products intended for 5x7 cameras.

DREW WILEY · Jul 16, 2022

Well, "Graflok-analogous" would be a better way of expressing it, rather than confusing it with "Graflok" fit per se, which has a specific known meaning. And at one time, that would have been patent-qualified as well. A real Graflok attachment will NOT fit into a 5x7 tweak. It works both ways. I'd hate to see this casual kind of confusion show up on a "for sale" description, for example. But at least at this point, I think we all know what the original poster was requesting.

Dunga · Jul 18, 2022

Bob Eskridge said:
Keith Canham is the only person who has made cameras with some thing like a Graflok back. (Canham cameras)

Thanks! I'll look him up.

Dunga · Jul 18, 2022

First of all, wow! Thanks everyone that spent time to give me an answer.
I'm replying below, trying out the multi-quote functionality. Bit of a newbie...

grat said:
Might try contacting Hugo of chamonixviewcamera.com. Their 5x7's don't appear to have Graflok backs, but the 57Fs-2 has this intriguing comment:

Nice, i'll take a look, Thanks!

Vaughn said:
How about the rare 5x7 Speed Graphics?

I'm not very well documented, but i felt that the traditional field cameras (i.e. Tachihara, Shen Hao etc.) would be a bit more flexible to use and easier to repair.
Plus i looked at the price of a 5x7 Linhof and almost passed out

Nokton48 said:
SONY DSC by Nokton48, on Flickr

I can use a 4x5 Graflock Back on my Old Normas by using the 5x7 to 4x5 Reducing Back. I'm sure they made a more modern version for the "P" also.
You could attach your 6x7 back to the 5x7 Reducing Back (just use the frame) with a bit of metalworking

I already have the 6x17 version that should hook up to a 5x7 camera.
There's also a version for 4x5, with some odd spacer, but it limits you to max 150mm lens.
That's why i went for this one. I snatched it for about 300eur.

BradS said:
The Walker Titan XL 5x7 has the little wings to hold your 6x17 roll film holder....and Mike makes excellent cameras. The description explicitly states that the back was designed to accommodate the Canham 6x17 back. See the link below...

http://walkercameras.com/XL5x7.html

I learned something new. Didn't know about these cameras. Thanks!

Oren Grad said:
In addition to Canham and Walker, I believe that at least some current Shen-Hao 5x7 models have sliders. Also, I have a vague recollection that at least for a while the Osaka-labeled variant of the 5x7 Tachihara that Bromwell Marketing imported to the US was offered with sliders, but I have no idea how many were ever sold and those would probably be very hard to find now.

Actually, that's a good point.
I know about their 6x17 camera, but i didn't check for the 5x7s

Sal Santamaura said:
My Ebony SV57 has locking sliders on the back.

Interesting. I'll take a look on Ebay.

DREW WILEY said:
Can't you just switch out your 5x7 back for the 4x5 reducing back, just like Nokton posted? Norma version, P, F... they're all interchangeable. It takes less than half a minute to switch them. No need to go scouting around for a whole new system.

My 6x17 is for the 5x7 back. So, no go.

grat said:
Speaking as someone who has a 6x17 back for a 4x5 camera, that missing 50 millimetres is a nuisance. You've got to have a back that extends back some 30mm, which limits what lenses you can use on both the wide and narrow ends, and requires either a spacer, or a separate ground glass. Even then, depending on the geometry of your bellows, you might experience vignetting.

Yeah, i know that version. Didn't like or want it.
At the time I studied them, i remember reading that you get limited to around maximum 150mm.
Which is kind-of on the wide side for 5x7 / 6x17.

BradS said:
The OP has and wants to use a 6x17 roll film back and therefore needs a 5x7.

Yup! Thanks for the clarification, Brad.

Keith Pitman said:
The 5x7 back for the Chamonix H-1 has a removable ground glass and sliders to retain another back—presumably a 6x17. The dimensions of the recess in the back are 150mm x 195mm.

Huh, didn't know that.
Thanks!

Now that i have multiple threads to follow, i'll go do some homework/investigations.
I'll get back to you when i find the solution for me.

Thanks a lot, again!
Claudiu.

Dunga · Jul 18, 2022

Nicholas Lindan said:
I find the question to be a bit ambiguous...

I assume your 6x17 is made to mount on a 4x5 graflok back. If so, then I assume you are looking for a 5x7 camera that takes a 5x7->4x5 reducing back with 4x5 graflok fittings.

Nope, it's made for the 5x7.
Very different

grat said:
Why would you assume that? First, the OP said:

And the one in the picture does NOT include the just about mandatory secondary ground glass for focusing, because a 6x17 back WILL NOT WORK directly attached to a 4x5 back-- 5 inches is 120mm, and a 6x17 requires 170mm of actual opening.

The only way to make this work is to extend the film plane some 30mm from the usual film plane. This however makes wide angle lenses (anything more than about 100mm) difficult to mount. Further, it limits you on the long end to about 210 (or less), due to vignetting.

This is the 6x17 back for 5x7:

This is the 6x17 back for 4x5 cameras:

True, it's the first picture.
The one without the extra ground glass module.
I guess it works with the same distance like the original ground glass.

DREW WILEY said:
Well, "Graflok-analogous" would be a better way of expressing it, rather than confusing it with "Graflok" fit per se, which has a specific known meaning. And at one time, that would have been patent-qualified as well. A real Graflok attachment will NOT fit into a 5x7 tweak. It works both ways. I'd hate to see this casual kind of confusion show up on a "for sale" description, for example. But at least at this point, I think we all know what the original poster was requesting.

Sorry for the debate i created.
I guess i didn't use the correct terminology.
To me it looked "graflok-ish", thus i used the word

grat · Jul 18, 2022

The word is misused anyway-- if it's a Graflex camera or accessory, it's a graflok back. Otherwise, I think most call it "graflok style", or I've heard "international back" tossed around. It's really too good an idea not to steal.

DREW WILEY · Jul 18, 2022

No problem. Every one of us probably had some trouble with correct lingo starting out. And there are just so many options out there that pictures and specific questions will always come into play.

Sal Santamaura · Jul 18, 2022

Dunga said:
...I guess i didn't use the correct terminology.
To me it looked "graflok-ish", thus i used the word

Most (but not all) of us who replied understood exactly what you were referring to. That's why we wrote about "sliding locks" when answering.

DREW WILEY · Jul 18, 2022

As long as I'm running from the usual bloodhound predictably on my trail, Going back to the posted pictures, a 6X17 adapter back for a 4x5 camera per se, essentially enlarging the back width to 5x7, and then again to the 617 film holder itself, is an awfully bulky thing adding extra weight and tug behind the camera. Most 4x5 field cameras aren't built solidly enough to handle that without the film plane getting tugged out of proper focus, especially when a wide angle lens is involved. One more consideration.

PhotoPham · Aug 19, 2022

SKgrimes in Rode Island could probably make you a 5x7 compatible back. I've seen posts of people hiring them for custom back services for 4x5 Graflex cameras so they should have some understanding.

Dunga · Aug 19, 2022

PhotoPham said:
SKgrimes in Rode Island could probably make you a 5x7 compatible back. I've seen posts of people hiring them for custom back services for 4x5 Graflex cameras so they should have some understanding.

Thanks for the tip!

Any 5x7" field camera with a graflock back?

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