Anxious for any news about the return of ((ORWO))

[mooseontheloose]

Thank you! My name is James, by the way. I'm from ORWO and will be keeping you all updated with the latest developments.

Welcome James! It'll be good to have information directly from the source.

I find it interesting that this thread just came up in my posts, as I have been a bit obsessed with ORWO (albeit vintage) products as of late.

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks James. Nice to see an official presence from ORWO communicating directly with Photrio

pentaxuser

 

[mohmad khatab]

Yes the rumours are true. After tons of requests, we have decided to release a completely new color cine film line. The world needs choice!

It’s a bit daunting to be setting up as the only alternative to the giant behemoth that is Kodak; but we are convinced that this is what is necessary to make film thrive, not just survive. Creative people need a range of canvases. They need options!

We have been deep in R&D throughout the last 2 years and are planning to launch pre-selling as soon as possible, with the first films being ready for shipping in the second quarter of 2022.

More details will be coming very soon...

Sir, you are very welcome and thank you for accepting the invitation to attend yourself and creating an official account for your organization to answer the photographers’ inquiries.
I don't know if you are that man I talked to on Instagram or someone else.? In general, I had talked to someone (maybe he is responsible for your Instagram page) and I sent him the link to this forum and this discussion in order to He comes and responds to the photographers. I don't know if this man is you or not?
I am the first to believe in you.
And I paid dearly for my faith in you. I was accused of being naive, ignorant and stupid, and many attacked me here and I had to respond to them in a jerky manner, and this got me into a trap and I was punished and my membership was banned for several months, until I submitted a petition to the forum administration in order to unblock my account.
A message to all the photographers who attacked me and accused me of stupidity, ignorance, and so on.
- This is an official from the new (ORWO) institution, whoever wants to submit an inquiry to him, this man is here to answer all inquiries and dispel all doubts.
Let's all go.

 

[mohmad khatab]

Yes the rumours are true. After tons of requests, we have decided to release a completely new color cine film line. The world needs choice!

It’s a bit daunting to be setting up as the only alternative to the giant behemoth that is Kodak; but we are convinced that this is what is necessary to make film thrive, not just survive. Creative people need a range of canvases. They need options!

We have been deep in R&D throughout the last 2 years and are planning to launch pre-selling as soon as possible, with the first films being ready for shipping in the second quarter of 2022.

More details will be coming very soon...

There was a man here who was considered one of the well-known industrial experts in the global analog photographic industry, and this man responded to my post and said that it was just rumors that appeared in a yellow newspaper, and we should not care about those rumors,,
Where is this man now?
He will surely hide as the Afghan president disappeared at lightning speed from the scene in Afghanistan. I don't know if he has some courage to face the truth?

 

[mohmad khatab]

Thanks for the clarification! And warm welcome to Photrio!

I was the one who brought this official to this forum. I contacted him repeatedly and asked him to come to this forum to answer the photographers' inquiries.
You should thank me too.
Yes, I am a weak and poor man and I live in a miserable country, but the popular saying says (God sometimes reveals his secrets in some worship of the weak).

 

[mohmad khatab]

Well ,, I will bring you a representative of the company and its spokesperson, called Mr. James, and all skeptics can ask him about all the economic and physical questions ,,, far from dreams ,,
Let us see who provides the arguments and proofs about the validity of his position and the know-how that he has made regarding the matter.

We are waiting for Mr. James to arrive from last March.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

You should thank me too.

You deserve full credit for your untiring effort.

 

[mohmad khatab]

You deserve full credit for your untiring effort.

God bless you, thank you for your kind words.
We can put pressure on Mr. James and corner him, and ask him to bring members of the forum a special discount on their products.
Because we are the first supporters of their project, and each of us will be an ambassador for ORWO products in his country, even if it is in an indirect way.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Given they're aiming their new color stock at the cine market, I think it's likely this will be ECN-2 process with remjet.

Which is fine; remjet isn't that hard to deal with once you know how, and ECN-2 films usually work well enough in C-41 (or ECN-2 color dev isn't hard to mix if you have access to CD-3).

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

I have been using Orwo's UN54 for many years. It used to be the most affordable bulk film in India till the recent changes in ownership. Now it is more expensive than Kentmere Pan 100 bulk film which is disappointing but understandable. When I am done using up the bulk rolls, I'll surely regret not having stocked more bulk rolls when they were affordable. But I really appreciate Orwo for continuing to make both UN54 and N75 available for the interested in India.

 

[ORWO Film Official]

Given they're aiming their new color stock at the cine market, I think it's likely this will be ECN-2 process with remjet.

Which is fine; remjet isn't that hard to deal with once you know how, and ECN-2 films usually work well enough in C-41 (or ECN-2 color dev isn't hard to mix if you have access to CD-3).

Processing will be ECN-2

 

[mohmad khatab]

Processing will be ECN-2

It is not intended to provide chemistry (ECN2), we all here can prepare that chemistry with our own hands in our homes.
The requirement is to provide long film reels and small film rolls (36 photos) similar to Cine Steel films.
So that the small roll (36 images) is free of a layer of ((Remjet)), just like the film (Sine Steel), and the large rollers (include a layer of Remjet).

 

[Donald Qualls]

@mohmad khatab I think you'd be ahead to learn to deal with remjet; then you can buy Visions3 and the new ORWO color stocks at cine distributor prices (in 120 m rolls) and load into cassettes with common bulk loaders after rolling down to standard 30.5 m length. Part of why Cinestill films are so expensive is the cost of having Kodak produce them without the remjet (and in 120 width without perfs). It's probably not going to be economical for ORWO to produce a special version of their color stock, at least at first; movie production is where the volume is that makes it worthwhile to create that kind of film, and they need the remjet.

From what I've seen on YouTube, remjet removal isn't difficult -- 38C water with sodium carbonate dissolved (washing soda, we'd call that here in the USA, not the bicarbonate/hydrogen carbonate that's baking soda). Fill the tank, agitate vigorously and continuously for a while (a couple minutes?), pour off, then rinse with same temperature water, fill and drain as needed until the rinse runs clear; that'll remove enough remjet to keep it off the emulsion during processing, and you can rub the rest off with wet fingers under running water after processing and washing the film.

 

[Auer]

Given they're aiming their new color stock at the cine market, I think it's likely this will be ECN-2 process with remjet.

Which is fine; remjet isn't that hard to deal with once you know how, and ECN-2 films usually work well enough in C-41 (or ECN-2 color dev isn't hard to mix if you have access to CD-3).

Cinestills 2 bath ECN-2 bleach bypass kit is pretty good as well.
I've used it on various color films and XP2 Super.

 

[mohmad khatab]

@mohmad khatab I think you'd be ahead to learn to deal with remjet; then you can buy Visions3 and the new ORWO color stocks at cine distributor prices (in 120 m rolls) and load into cassettes with common bulk loaders after rolling down to standard 30.5 m length. Part of why Cinestill films are so expensive is the cost of having Kodak produce them without the remjet (and in 120 width without perfs). It's probably not going to be economical for ORWO to produce a special version of their color stock, at least at first; movie production is where the volume is that makes it worthwhile to create that kind of film, and they need the remjet.

From what I've seen on YouTube, remjet removal isn't difficult -- 38C water with sodium carbonate dissolved (washing soda, we'd call that here in the USA, not the bicarbonate/hydrogen carbonate that's baking soda). Fill the tank, agitate vigorously and continuously for a while (a couple minutes?), pour off, then rinse with same temperature water, fill and drain as needed until the rinse runs clear; that'll remove enough remjet to keep it off the emulsion during processing, and you can rub the rest off with wet fingers under running water after processing and washing the film.

My dear, I know all too well what he did,
But with great regret. Funding remains the main obstacle for me.
And I will not be ashamed to say that.
So I asked Mr. James again and again to set up a branch or office for them in Egypt.
I can't finance buying reels and paying exorbitant shipping and customs fees.
But my colleagues and I can buy the sectoral purchase (by the piece),,
- There was an idea put forward that we would collect money and make a group purchase order, but unfortunately this project was aborted in its beginning due to the lack of trust between the parties, in addition to the fact that this idea was attacked by some evil enemies who monopolize the market for selling analog films.
I'm really very sad and I don't know what to do, I'm standing idly by and unable to do anything.

 

[Film-Niko]

I will not talk much about this, so as not to be punished again so that my account in the forum will be activated again..
I will be smart this time.
However, I hope everyone who was fiercely opposed to the idea of (ORWO) returning to produce a color film, I hope that these opponents have literary and scientific courage and can apologize for being opposed to this idea without scientific evidence.
A respectable person, a noble person, a person of high morals, should apologize if the days prove that his point of view was wrong. And if he does not apologize, he is not worthy of respect at all.

You are the only person here who must apologize!
Because you are again spreading lies. No one here was opposed to the idea of InovisCoat (now being under the same roof with FilmoTec who is using the ORWO brand) returning to color film production. Just the opposite! We all know here that InovisCoat is producing color film for years (for Lomography, the creative film line).
The experts here have explained to you that it is unrealistic that they could produce a highest quality color film on the Fuji / Kodak level at 'half the market price'. You have always claimed here that such an extremely cheap color film is possible, and that the current manufacturers are ripping us of. But that is just a conspiracy theory, and has nothing to do with reality!
InovisCoat/FilmoTec/ORWO cannot escape the technological and economical market realities. And they have to ask for a price that not only covers their daily costs, but also enable them to invest in machinery and maintenance, and human resources to stay in business in the long term.
And that simply does not work at all if you try to offer a color film for only 2-3€.

 

[Film-Niko]

So I asked Mr. James again and again to set up a branch or office for them in Egypt.

And as the ORWO guys are clever people, they will not do that because it would hurt them very much financially. They are a very small company, trying to gaining strength and establishing in a new way in the market. They have to set very strict priorities at such a challenging period of their business!
That means concentrating strictly on their most important markets: North America, Europe and Asia. These markets are decisive for their success.

 

[Film-Niko]

There was a man here who was considered one of the well-known industrial experts in the global analog photographic industry, and this man responded to my post and said that it was just rumors that appeared in a yellow newspaper, and we should not care about those rumors,,

You are again spreading lies.
Just look at the beginning of this thread. In that newspaper simply no real news were published. All what was written there was just well known to all of us here in this forum because we had discussed the facts many months before (e.g. in Industry News forum). Because the real news were published by the owners of the company many months before, and at that time we discussed the news here on photrio.
What the member you are referring to had written here was absolutely right. And what you are writing here is simply totally wrong.

 

[Film-Niko]

We can put pressure on Mr. James and corner him, and ask him to bring members of the forum a special discount on their products.

Just at ORWO Official's - James Holcombe's first day here you try to force the forum members "to put pressure on Mr. James........to get a special discount".
Sorry, but what a disgusting and greedy behaviour.
But that is typical for you: Many forum members here and companies tried to help you in the past, but you have never been satisfied with their generosity. You always wanted more, or even cheaper. And you attacked and offended those if they were not able to give you more.
You try to exploit others. Now you try that with ORWO.

 

[Film-Niko]

I was the one who brought this official to this forum.

No, you did not.
You have instead botherd them on their instagram account in a very unfriendly and aggressive way. They are here not because of you, but despite you.
It was a general PR and marketing decision for them to participate here. They would have done it in any case.

 

[Film-Niko]

It is not intended to provide chemistry (ECN2), we all here can prepare that chemistry with our own hands in our homes.
The requirement is to provide long film reels and small film rolls (36 photos) similar to Cine Steel films.
So that the small roll (36 images) is free of a layer of ((Remjet)), just like the film (Sine Steel), and the large rollers (include a layer of Remjet).

Fact is that CineStill Film has a patented process to remove the Remjet layer from masterrolls. But that process is difficult, sophisticated and therefore expensive. Look at the prices of the CineStill films. They must ask for that to cover their costs and stay in business.
If ORWO make the decision to offer an additional Remjet free version, they have theoretically two options:
1. To cooperate with CineStill film (if CineStill is open to that). Then you have the cost situation described above.
2. To make one additional production run without Remjet. But because of the much lower volume the economies of scale will be worse compared to the regular Remjet production. Means increased costs.
Therefore in both cases extremely cheap film - your main wish - will not be possible.

 

[Film-Niko]

Welcome to photrio, James!
Very good to have you and ORWO here!

Processing will be ECN-2

Do I understand it right that the company is focusing for the foreseeable future on movie / cine film?
So currently no plans for C-41 or E-6 type films?

Thanks in advance for the reply!

 

[Henning Serger]

Thank you! My name is James, by the way. I'm from ORWO and will be keeping you all updated with the latest developments.

A cordial welcome by me as well!
Very good to have you here.

I have a kind of emotional relationsship to ORWO film, as the very first photographs of me - made by my father - were made on ORWO BW film. And he made some very lovely and funny shots of me .
And as I have family roots in Eastern Germany, and regularly visited my uncle there (who used ORWO as well) during the time of the Iron Curtain, there is another link to the brand.
Furthermore:
In 2019 I had the great luck to visit the InovisCoat factory in Monheim, having a factory tour and talking to the engineers and chemists. Really fascinating.
I wish you and the company in their new organisational structure all the best!

Best regards,
Henning

 

[mohmad khatab]

You are the only person here who must apologize!
Because you are again spreading lies. No one here was opposed to the idea of InovisCoat (now being under the same roof with FilmoTec who is using the ORWO brand) returning to color film production. Just the opposite! We all know here that InovisCoat is producing color film for years (for Lomography, the creative film line).
The experts here have explained to you that it is unrealistic that they could produce a highest quality color film on the Fuji / Kodak level at 'half the market price'. You have always claimed here that such an extremely cheap color film is possible, and that the current manufacturers are ripping us of. But that is just a conspiracy theory, and has nothing to do with reality!
InovisCoat/FilmoTec/ORWO cannot escape the technological and economical market realities. And they have to ask for a price that not only covers their daily costs, but also enable them to invest in machinery and maintenance, and human resources to stay in business in the long term.
And that simply does not work at all if you try to offer a color film for only 2-3€.

Hello my dear brother ,,
My cordial greetings to you.. I was waiting for a message from you that was more friendly than that, but it's okay,,
I understood your message well, and I understood between the lines and what is behind them.
Well dear brother. Allow me to point out to you some points in which there may have been confusion or misunderstanding, or perhaps my poor English has caused me to make some verbal errors.

- I did not promote lies, honorable sir, I spoke and said that there is a company that will appear to the light based on a conversation that took place between me and a representative of that company who assured me that they are strongly determined to produce Films Color..

Well, my dear, if there is anything wrong with which I should be punished, I will gladly accept any punishment.
- I am not an expert in the story of a company buying other factories, and I am not an expert in the alliances that take place between international companies, all of this does not concern me, all I meant was that as long as there is a Lomography company (that company that has no known history and no one knows Where is the factory that produced the film for her, the color she sells?) It is a fortiori that it would not be considered surprising that a well-established company bearing the prestigious Experimental Mark (ORWO) came to do the same thing.

- In fact, my dear, I never talked about the expected selling price, simply because I am not qualified to talk about prices, as I do not know the unseen.
- But all I just said was ((Logic tells us that any fledgling company in order to find a place for itself in the market will inevitably resort to trying to reduce the prices of its products in order to gain some customers)) and from this point of view I hoped that that company would see the light so that it could benefit Some poor photographers like me take such cuts.

 

[mohmad khatab]

And as the ORWO guys are clever people, they will not do that because it would hurt them very much financially. They are a very small company, trying to gaining strength and establishing in a new way in the market. They have to set very strict priorities at such a challenging period of their business!
That means concentrating strictly on their most important markets: North America, Europe and Asia. These markets are decisive for their success.

First, how do you know that it is a small company?
They are not a small company as I understand it, they have unified all the remaining factories that once bore the name (ORWO) and also (AGFA)..

The person who did it definitely didn't do it by accident. He really understands very well what he is doing and what he wants to do.
According to my information, the new owners of this ancient institution, they belong to the category of experts in the photographic industry, and are not butchers or coffee merchants.
- They are not young... and they have deep experiences that qualify them to do the right thing. And they don't need your advice.

- I asked Mr. James to establish a small office for them in Egypt, a small office consisting of two employees and a small store, because I have a vision for this matter,,
My vision for this is.
Egyptians in general love the name (ORWO), and I am a 45-year-old man. This brand has contributed to the formation of my cultural sentiments through the adoption of the General Organization for Cinema in Egypt on (ORWO) products, and this company has always been a key partner of the General Organization for Film Production.
Accordingly, the (ORWO) trademark is still registered in Egypt as a partner and friend company, which means that they will not have to submit new papers and documents in order to obtain a license to establish an office for them in Egypt.
According to Egyptian laws, any trademark is not erased from the records unless there is a judicial conflict over the property rights of that trademark.
This means that Mr. James will send a simple employee with documents proving that they have become the current owners of that trademark and therefore pay the fees and open the office doors the next day.
- This trademark I do not know if it was registered before in the United States or not, but I think that it was not registered under the name (ORWO) but was registered under the name (GAF) I am really not sure, and I repeat not sure,,