Ansco 4X5 film

[Doug Knutsen]

I was recently given four boxes of Ansco 4X5 film. Three boxes are labeled: "Super Hy-Ortho Type V Class C" and one box: "Versapan Type V Class C." All four boxes have "Military Expiration Date: (the date has faded beyond reading on all four boxes)." I Googled Ansco film but the most I could learn is that the U.S. government owned Ansco for a while. Can anyone give me any information about this film? (And, no, unlike ALL the out of date film you see on eBay, this film was not cold stored!)

Thanks,
Doug K
Polk Co, Oregon

 

[Doug Knutsen]

Oops.

The "Super Hy-Ortho Type V" is "Type B" not "Type C."

Doug K

 

[PHOTOTONE]

Ansco was a major competitor to Kodak right up thru the early 1970's (I think). The only reason the US Government may have had an involvement in Ansco was because of the association of Agfa and Ansco and WW 2. In any case, Ansco became GAF. They made a full line of photographic products, both color and black and white from 35mm on up thru all the popular large-format sizes, and they had their own color negative and color slide films. They also made an excellent line of b/w enlarging papers. It is a shame they are gone.

All US photographic supply vendors sold to the US Government under contract, so you may see old Kodak, DuPont and Ansco films with US Government contract labels.

 

[Larry Bullis]

Versapan

I was recently given four boxes of Ansco 4X5 film. Three boxes are labeled: "Super Hy-Ortho Type V Class C" and one box: "Versapan Type V Class C." All four boxes have "Military Expiration Date: (the date has faded beyond reading on all four boxes)." I Googled Ansco film but the most I could learn is that the U.S. government owned Ansco for a while. Can anyone give me any information about this film? (And, no, unlike ALL the out of date film you see on eBay, this film was not cold stored!)

Thanks,
Doug K
Polk Co, Oregon

Versapan was the film that Minor White used in the 1960's. He liked it for its "versa" tility (it was great for varying the process for expansion/contraction) and processed it in FG7 without the optional sulfite.

I have lots of negatives made on it in my files from the mid-late '60's.

GAF bought Ansco at some point, I think in the late 1960's. I can't remember when they quit making it, but it must have been in the early '70's.

 

[Anscojohn]

I think the Class C moniker is a government designation, not an indication of the spectral response. It referred to the devoloper used for it. I think Gadget Gainer referred to this concept. I cannot find my 1940s-vintage USN training book or I would lukitup.
Ansco was a merger of Anthony and Scovill; bought by Agfa in the late 1920s; as indicated, was alien property. Agfa comes from Aktientgessellschaft für Anilinen. By the time the Ansco case was finally settled, Ansco had renamed itself General Aniline and Film.
My bride's family is from Binghamton, NY, and several of them worked for Ansco.

 

[Larry Bullis]

...By the time the Ansco case was finally settled, Ansco had renamed itself General Aniline and Film.
...

Thanks for this clarification.

I have an old sample book of Ansco papers. The papers are incredibly beautiful. We have some great papers today, too, but the variety of image tones and bases they had in those days was much broader, seems to me.

 

[Paul Howell]

GAF bought Ansco at some point, I think in the late 1960's. I can't remember when they quit making it, but it must have been in the early '70's.[/QUOTE]

I think GAF stopped production in the mid to late 70's, I recall buying GAF 500in 75 or 77. I have a few GAF slide processing kits and Ansco 35mm 100/200 slide film left. As I understand it GAF did not have the resources to keep with R and D, GAF is still in busniess and makes roofing materials. The miltary used some GAF products, b&w film was good, the GAF VC RC I used in the Air Force was really not all that good, looked very gray and muddled compared to Kodak or Dupont.

 

[Anscojohn]

In the mid 1960s, I worked for a guy doing convention photography in AC, NJ. We shot everything on Super Hypan, at ASA 500, iirc. It was down and dirty photography, not fine art, to be sure. What I recall most was the film base. It seemed as if it were indestructable. Neg strips dropped on the floor, a hundred or so strips carried at a time, over the shoulder. Never seemed to show any signs of wear and tear. We souped it in Dupont developer, dip and dunk, maybe a hundred strips at a time on hangers.

 

[AgX]

An Ansco shortstory:

Agfa became part of the huge German chemical trust IG Farben in 1925.
Ansco was taken over by Agfa (or rather their two US-subsidiaries) in 1928, forming Agfa-Ansco.
The Grasselli chemical works (once owned by the German company Bayer..) were taken over by IG Farben in 1928 and renamed General Aniline Works.
IG Farben soon later in 1929 formed the American IG Chemical Corporation which then took over substantial interest in Agfa-Ansco and the General Aniline Works, weaving them into the IG network.
In 1939 the American IG Chemical Corporation finally took over all interests of the General Aniline Works, renaming it General Aniline and Film (GAF).
And in 1940 taking over the majority of Agfa-Ansco and merging them with GAF. (This is a bit strange as the name GAF indicates that it was originated by the merger…)
Quite some time after the German declaration of war to the US the Agfa-Ansco company was seized by the US state in 1942 but goes on producing. The reason for this was argued by IG Farben as they rejected GAF being a German campany.
Nevertheless GAF stayed a US-government controlled company until 1965, something which seemingly was not to the benefit of that company.
Then its shares were sold to the public. 40 percent of the revenues of this sale went to a successor of IG Farben the rest to the US state.
GAF was then split into two branches as they were before the merger.
In 1977 GAF stopped the production of consumer films, the manufacturing of other films goes on.
In 1978 the Ansco trademark was sold to an Asian company.
In 1982 the rest of the film business is sold to the new company Anitec
International Paper took over Anitec and Ilford in 1987.
A Kodak branch bought Anitec in 1998 and closed it the same year.

 

[AgX]

What does 'Military Expiry Date´ mean?
Is it different from a civilian one?

 

[spoolman]

Hello All:I've a question which involves GAF film.I recently aquired a unopened box of GAF Professional Film Type 2863 B&W 4x5 sheet film.I didn't see any film speed or exposure data on the box.The expiration date is November 1974.Can anyone shed any light on this product?

Thanks

Doug

 

[eclarke]

Ansco was a major competitor to Kodak right up thru the early 1970's (I think). The only reason the US Government may have had an involvement in Ansco was because of the association of Agfa and Ansco and WW 2. In any case, Ansco became GAF. They made a full line of photographic products, both color and black and white from 35mm on up thru all the popular large-format sizes, and they had their own color negative and color slide films. They also made an excellent line of b/w enlarging papers. It is a shame they are gone.

All US photographic supply vendors sold to the US Government under contract, so you may see old Kodak, DuPont and Ansco films with US Government contract labels.

After it was GAF, it was Anitech, then International Paper and Kodak finally bought the place and demolished everything including the coating machine. At one point GAF owned Ilford...Evan Clarke

 

[AgX]

Evan,

As you could read in my post above, GAF never owned Ilford.
A company which bought a part out of the photographic branch of GAF also bought Ilford and made both the photo division within its portfolio.

 

[RJS]

I too used Versapan 'back in the day'. It responded to changes in developing time (plus or minus) awfully well - but after while I began making comparisons with some other Kodak films and found that Versapan was not terribly sharp. So I stopped using it and thus, Ansco went out of business!

 

[Doug Knutsen]

Possibly......

What does 'Military Expiry Date´ mean?
Is it different from a civilian one?

.....as with other word ncombinations containing "military", such as "military intelligence", the words "military expiration" date cancel each other out and mean nothing.

Just for giggles, I'm going to shoot some of this stuff. Does anyone have any suggestions for D76 or Ilford 1D-II?

And, thanks to everyone responding. This has been an education!

Doug

 

[Paul Howell]

I would try the old Plus X sheet time, say around 6 mints, rate at ISO50. You might want try an unexposed sheet to see how much fog you have.

 

[eclarke]

My brother in law was qc manager and later tech services director at GAF/Anitec and retired from IP, he was at the plant in Binghamton from 1975 until almost the end. He made the comment once that they owned Ilford and he made numerous trips to Ilford in his tech services capacity. I worked on Clinton Street across the street from the coating plant and was treated to many many visits there. Anitec was very successful in the graphic arts film business until they were bought by IP....EC

 

[pgomena]

Depending on where the military sends you, you might expire at any time.

 

[Anscojohn]

Doug, The military class C film developer was the same as, or very similar to, Eastman DK-50, if that is any help.

 

[Simon R Galley]

Dear All,

In 1989 ILFORD was bought from Ciba Geigy by International Paper of the USA, part of IP's portfolio was ANITEC, we briefly became ILFORD Anitec, part of the specialist products division of IP, later on IP also acquired HORSELLS Graphics, in 1997 ILFORD Imaging was sold to UK private equity company Doughty Hanson and the Anitec / Horsell organisation became part of KODAK Polychrome.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

 

[AgX]

See post #9.
(I did not gave detail about Ilford as this is off the Ansco subject.)

 

[Terrence Brennan]

GAF Versapan

Interesting thread! Now I'll throw in my 2.1¢ worth; 2.1¢ in Canadian dollars = 2¢ in American dollars.

When I was in junior college, in the Spring of 1972, one of my instructors had been given several 1000-foot rolls of 35mm GAF Versapan motion picture film. Said film had an ASA speed (the forerunner of ISO ratings) of 80 to daylight, 64 to tungsten, and an expiry date of September, 1967 printed on the label.

His students were invited to take a bit of film and try it out. Most students weren't interested, as we were warned that the true speed for and development times were more or less unknown. So, I was able to take a couple hundred feet of film, and it kept me going that year, until I got a summer job and was able to buy a 100-foot roll of Tri-X (selling for about $10 the 100-foot roll back then...).

I exposed the film from between EI 40 to EI 1000, and tried different development times, mostly in D-76 1:1. As might be expected, most negatives were rather thin (rather...), but printable. This was before I discovered the importance of accurately exposing and developing my film, and before I had learned anything about sensitometry. I still have prints I made from that film, and while they tend to be flat, and muddy, they are a good record of what I was looking at and photographing back in my salad days.