Ansco 130

chris77 · Sep 4, 2018

hello.
question about glycine.
what does it do? (in ansco 130)
and is it the powder i find on *bay that is used as a splementary food (vegan and stuff)?
my drugstore here in vienna sells 100g glycine for 20€
(more than triple the price online??!)
tx
cheers

Anon Ymous · Sep 4, 2018

chris77 said:
hello.
question about glycine.
what does it do? (in ansco 130)
and is it the powder i find on *bay that is used as a splementary food (vegan and stuff)?
my drugstore here in vienna sells 100g glycine for 20€
(more than triple the price online??!)
tx
cheers

Glycin (notice that there's no e at the end) is a development agent. Glycine is not the same thing and definitely not what you want.

chris77 · Sep 4, 2018

tx for clearing this up

Wayne · Sep 4, 2018

jnanian said:
you remember that too?
it was alike a bad spy novel ... that took like 2 years !
from what i understand from people who
regularly do work with factories &c over there
is you have to have someone on the ground over there who you trust
who does quality control, to assure you that what you are getting
is what you paid for, and it isn't just the sample that is what you paid for ...
ansco 130 with phenione? does the phenidone take the place of the metol gram for gram ?
sorry to ask the secrets of your recipe ...

Its been years since I used it because I used it primarily on Polywarmtone. I was trying to duplicate the results of BW-65, which PF touts as being very close to amidol. It gave a beautiful warm but not green tone on Polywarmtone. But BW-65 is 2-part and only lasts a few hours once mixed. My mixture was one part and lasted forever like Ansco 130. It also gave results indistinguishable from BW-65, to my eye.

I actually used ID-62 as the starting point and added glycin to that, and tweaked restrainers

> Ilford ID-62
> Water (at 125F)
750.0 ml
> Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous) 50.0 grams
> Hydroquinone 12.0 grams
> Sodium Carbonate (anhydrous) 60.0 grams
> Phenidone 0.5 grams
> Potassium Bromide 2.0 grams
> Benzotriazole 0.5 grams
> Water to make 1.0 liter
> Dilute 1:2 for use.

So you might start with that and do your own tweaks to find what works for you

I think this is what I ended up using most:

> Water (at 125F)
750.0 ml
> Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous) 50.0 grams
> Hydroquinone 11.0 grams
> Sodium Carbonate (anhydrous) 70.0 grams
> glycin 11 grams
> Phenidone 0.25 grams
> Benzotriazole 0.2 grams
> Water to make 1.0 liter
> Dilute 1:1 for use.

I sometimes used the KbR and sometimes didn't.

removed account4 · Sep 4, 2018

thanks wayne !
i'm developer clueless
so its always nice
to read how people
know what they are doing
with stuff ive never heard of

Wayne · Sep 4, 2018

Please don't lump me in with people who know what they're doing, because I don't belong there and they might be insulted. I recall some people thinking there were problems with that recipe but it worked for me and thats all that mattered.

removed account4 · Sep 4, 2018

Wayne said:
Please don't lump me in with people who know what they're doing, because I don't belong there and they might be insulted. I recall some people thinking there were problems with that recipe but it worked for me and thats all that mattered.

ok

DREW WILEY · Sep 4, 2018

At least the amidol glitch wasn't toothpaste with antifreeze in it, or baby formula with melamine, or an exploding battery.

NedL · Sep 4, 2018

Do people use A-130 replenished? My replenished bottle of LPD has been going for years.

Wayne's first "recipe" might be like LPD, right? With hydroquinone and phenidone as the main active ingredients?
How would the addition of glycin change the properties?

removed account4 · Sep 4, 2018

hey nedL
i have
but it was for film processing
it worked well when i used it that way
( rolls AND sheets ) paper i always used it until
i didn't get blacks or whites ... ( unreplenshed )
no clue about LPD i had a can once
and i mailed it to a friend before i got a chance to use it !
john

Wayne · Sep 5, 2018

Ned, glycin is often used for mid-tone separation, among other things. Since I was looking for a certain "look" in portraits, that was my goal, to give that "look" to skin tones. I dont know how well that works on other papers because I was primarily using Forte PWT and that work was rudely interrupted by its untimely demise.

I used ID-62 as the starting point and tweaked it due to suggestions from Richard Knoppow and others back in the pre-apug days on rec.photo.darkroom, where you can see I was stumbling blindly in the dark (and still am)

RalphLambrecht · Sep 5, 2018

jnanian said:
hi ray

for paper - 72º ( glycin likes to work warmer than 68º ) 1:2 about 2 minutes.

for film - 72º, 1:5 about 7 1/2 mins.

- john

+1 same here; print development never under 90s;film never under4min.

juan · Sep 5, 2018

NedL said:
Do people use A-130 replenished? My replenished bottle of LPD has been going for years.

I mix the standard formula for Ansco 130 at working strength which gives two liters. I put them in two glass bottles. I develop from one bottle, and after a session, I top up the bottle from the second. I guess you could call that replenishment.

bnxvs · Feb 20, 2019

Hi guys. I have almost 2 kg of photo-glycine (bought for my friends, but it remained with me in the end ). It is a little bit dark (coffee with double milk), but it works well (prod. date 12/2017, refrigirated storage). Based on it, I made A-130, Hubl's glycine paste and Mikratol-2. Everything is working good. I can change it to something useful in a darkroom. For example, on El-Nikkor 80/5.6, framing frame 11x14, sheet film, etc. or other chemicals - citrazinic acid, CD-3/4, etc.

EDanon · Mar 16, 2019

Hi, Im new to this forum as well as for chemical mixing. I have a very basic question regarding mixing. In all the recipes I see the order of mixing is important and they always create a liquid. What is then the difference in the formula between self mixed chemicals and commercial made powders? How come I get a single powder of, for example D-76, and only have to add it to water? Im sure its not simply all the ingrediants mixed together because in this case there is no order of adding. Sorry if this is too simple or have been discussed before. I couldn't find any information about this.

Rafal Lukawiecki · Mar 16, 2019

EDanon said:
In all the recipes I see the order of mixing is important and they always create a liquid. What is then the difference in the formula between self mixed chemicals and commercial made powders? How come I get a single powder of, for example D-76, and only have to add it to water? Im sure its not simply all the ingrediants mixed together because in this case there is no order of adding.

I suspect @Photo Engineer will give you a fuller answer, but the simple answer is that commercial powders use coating technologies and varying sizes of granules to cause different chemicals to dissolve at different rates and at different points in time from the start. Further, many still require staging, like Kodak's XTOL or Dektol, or Ilford ID-11, still requiring you to dissolve the first bag fully before adding the second.

The reasons for this are many. Some chemicals will not dissolve (easily or at all) in plain water, and may require an alkaline or acidic environment. Others, like some developing agents, will oxidise quickly, and require the presence of another, already-dissolved, chemical which will preserve them. Large manufacturers went to great lengths to make this into an easy and convenient process, but a lot of their know-how is still an industrial secret or covered by patents.

Enjoy mixing your own, you can learn a lot that way, but ultimately, store-bought, ready-to-mix chemistry is excellent.

EDanon · Mar 16, 2019

Thanks a lot for your answer. So if I understand correctly the chemicals used for commercial manufacture are different than those I will get in order to mix my own. This is due to different processes manufacturers do. I wonder if there is any good info resource to learn a bit more about the commercial processes of chemical manufacturing.

Rafal Lukawiecki · Mar 16, 2019

EDanon said:
Thanks a lot for your answer. So if I understand correctly the chemicals used for commercial manufacture are different than those I will get in order to mix my own. This is due to different processes manufacturers do. I wonder if there is any good info resource to learn a bit more about the commercial processes of chemical manufacturing.

The chemical itself is the same, as far as we know, but, after being made into a powder, it may get coated with another one, so that it only dissolves after the coating has dissolved. The size of the granule will also decide on the rate at which it dissolves. Unless you were to grind your own powders, or control your own crystallisation—which I have no experience of but I suspect would be both difficult and possibly too hazardous on a small scale—the easiest way to resolve the problem is the age-old technique of dissolving in the order given. If you buy, say, from Photographers Formulary in US, a major and highly respected vendor, you will get each component on its own and instructions on the mixing order.

I am sorry but I cannot help you with literature on commercial processes of chemical manufacturing. However, I can suggest some books that have helped me in understanding of photographic chemistry and were useful to my practice: Modern Photographic Processeses vol 1 and 2 by Grant Haist, Developing by Jacobson and Jacobson, Photographic Facts and Formulas by Wall and Jordan, Basic Photographic Materials and Processes by Stroebel, Compton, Current and Zakia. I would, however, start with less technical texts, such as The Darkroom Cookbook by Anchell, The Film Developing Cookbook by Achell and Troop, The Ansel Adams Guide: Basic Techniques of Photography Book 1 by Schaefer, The Negative, by Adams (and also his The Print), and, the most modern and recent compendium of almost everything, Way Beyond Monochrome Second Edition, by Lambrecht and Woodhouse. You will find quite a few of those authors' posts here.

EDanon · Mar 16, 2019

Thanks a lot. Thats a lot of information. One of these books I already have. I will start doing my homework..

Alan Barton · Apr 19, 2019

My side/side tests with Azo (different vintages) in Amidol and 130 (1:1) are the same as Sandy's - that's why I gave up on Amidol (hard to find pure enough material, stains, cost). Water bath gives similar results to Amidol (usually for me, half the time in developer, half in water).

john_s · Jul 18, 2022

eclarke said:
I mixed a 5:1 concentrate of 130 in water a couple years ago and it was just fine, kept long enough for me to use it up. I have a nice Corning heated magnetic stirrer which takes everything into solution very well and mixing a normal batch is no big deal so I gave up the concentrate idea. I make 1 gal. of stock at a time and use it 1+3 so it lasts a few weeks. I use a Glycin film developer also and have never had the Glycin go bad on me before using it up...Evan Clarke

I have some glycin and want to try Ansco130. I like the idea of mixing up a concentrated stock solution, especially as glycin apparently lasts longer in solution than as a powder. Concentrate could be put into smaller bottles.

Did you mean that you mixed it up at 5x normal concentration? I wouldn't have thought that those ingredients would go into solution at anything like that amount. Maybe you meant something else.

Ansco 130

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