ANR Glass and negative carriers

BHuij · Feb 3, 2023

I'm finally starting to notice a few film flatness issues with my enlarger (Beseler 45 MXT). I have glassless carriers for just about every major size from 35mm through 4x5 and have used them all. Some suffer more than others. The 4x5 carrier in particular seems to have a hard time not letting the film sag a bit, and if I'm shooting the end frame on a strip of 35mm, I often get a bit of curling inward.

The obvious solution is a glass neg carrier. Problem is, they're absurdly expensive. B&H lists over $400 and special order for an ANR glass 4x5 carrier for my enlarger, and even used options seem to start at around $200.

I'm very confident I could fabricate one that works great... except I can't find anywhere that will sell me ANR glass in the right size. I'd ideally want a piece a hair larger than 4x5" proper, so I could print an entire 4x5 sheet of film without making over the edges if I wanted to.

Anyone know where I can find a sheet of this magic glass? Any recommendations on a specific thickness or anything like that?

Roger Thoms · Feb 4, 2023

Generic anti-newton glass

Hope this helps.

Roger

ic-racer · Feb 4, 2023

A while back I wanted the glass carrier for my Minolta enlarger. I have never seen one for sale, only a listing in the owner's manual.
Since the enlarger head lifts up and sits on the carrier, I was able to make a glass one easily by sandwiching two pieces of scrap carrier glass together with some tape. It works really well.
Scrap Durst AN glass occasionally shows up on ebay.

Ian C · Feb 4, 2023

The following is essentially the same as shown in Post #3 above. It looks like IC made a tape hinge along the top edge—great idea.

Temporary Glass Carrier

You can make do with your film sandwiched between two sheets of window glass. I’ve done so with enlargers for which no glass carrier could be found. Determine the size you need and have two identical sheets of window glass cut. Deburr all edges and corners with a fine grit sharpening stone so that you can handle the sheets without cutting your fingers or damaging the negatives. You should also make a top mask that looks like a print mat. Make it of a thin black materiel. You can use a sheet of black construction paper such as is used for school children’s art projects, or you can use a totally exposed, developed, fixed, and washed sheet of enlarging paper. Thin resin coated paper works best.

Layout the opening you require with a pencil. I use a silver-lead pencil from an art supply store on black paper. If you make the mask from photo paper, you can do the layout on the white side. Use a ruler to guide the pencil. Then cutout the opening with a single-edge razor blade guided with a steel rule.

The mask serves two purposes:

1. Placed atop the negative before laying down the top glass, it prevents the formation of Newton rings.

2. It also holds back excess spill light. You might need different masks depending on the size of the negative. You might want to apply black paint or enamel to the edges of the glass to prevent light piping.

To keep the sandwich together, you can temporarily tape the two sheets of glass together at two or more points along opposite edges. This might sound crude, and it isn’t as convenient as a commercial glass carrier, but it works. I did this with a Beseler 23CII enlarger until I found a glass carrier. The prints made with the homemade carrier were uniformly focused and have the same quality as those I later made with the Beseler glass carrier. In the meanwhile, you can keep checking potential sources, such as eBay for a reasonably priced glass carrier for your enlarger.

Kino · Feb 4, 2023

Roger Thoms said:
Generic anti-newton glass

Hope this helps.

Roger

Thanks for pointing this out! Been casually looking for some myself and never ran across this resource.

BHuij · Feb 4, 2023

Kino said:
Thanks for point this out! Been casually looking for some myself and never ran across this resource.

Yeah same. This looks perfect. It’s still pretty expensive, but with a little luck it will be a one time purchase.

MattiS · Feb 4, 2023

I ordered a set of AN glasses for my 4x5 Laborator from Kienzle. If I remember right it was in the range of 130€. Might be worth a try.

John Koehrer · Feb 7, 2023

AN glass is also with some scanners/printers, maybe something there.

OAPOli · Feb 7, 2023

I've used "non-glare" glass to camera scan negatives. Similar result to glass advertised as ANR. You'll find it for cheap at your local framing shop if you want to experiment.

BHuij · Feb 8, 2023

OAPOli said:
I've used "non-glare" glass to camera scan negatives. Similar result to glass advertised as ANR. You'll find it for cheap at your local framing shop if you want to experiment.

I'm on the fence. On the one hand, I could potentially have a working glass neg carrier that would work for every format I shoot with something like non-glare glass for under $20. On the other hand, it might just be a "buy once cry once" thing where I'm better off springing for the pricey ANR glass the first time and not wasting time with other options that might not work.

BHuij · Jun 19, 2024

For internet posterity --

I finally got around to designing and 3D printing a negative carrier for my Beseler 45MXT. I started with cheap float glass from the hardware store at 3/32 thickness (the same thickness as the ANR glass I'd be using from the link above if I decided to get ANR glass).

I haven't done a tremendous amount of printing with it yet, but I've run 35mm, 6x6, and 4x5 negs through and made prints from existing negatives that I've printed before glassless. No appreciable difference in exposure times or tonality, no apparent loss of sharpness or quality. And so far, no visible newton rings, despite taking exactly zero precautions against newton rings. If a wild newton ring ever appears, I always have the option to pop the glass out and put in some ANR cut to size instead.

For formats smaller than 4x5, I have designed and printed some extremely simple masks to block extraneous light. They just drop in from the top, so they're not actually contacting the negative or in between the glass, but they work all the same.

To my fellow Beseler 45 comrades in arms, please feel free to print and use at will.

Printables

www.printables.com

DREW WILEY · Jun 19, 2024

Nonglare picture frame glass is quite different from real AN glass, and not a realistic substitute. But at one time, I did test it.

BHuij · Jun 19, 2024

I'm not even using non-glare. Just straight up and down float glass from Home Depot. Cut down in my garage from 8x10 sheets that cost me about $3 each. No issues yet

DREW WILEY · Jun 20, 2024

If it works for you, fine. But until you've compared it to the real deal ...

Nokton48 · Jun 20, 2024

I've yet to have Durst ANR Glass arrive here unbroken. Given up on that!

Kevin at KHB has the glass he uses in his Omegas. I ordered a piece big enough to contact print 8x10 Negs. Worth every penny, it's the real deal.

BHuij · Jun 20, 2024

@DREW WILEY I mean... I've compared it against having no glass with negatives that don't suffer from curl, and seen no difference. I can't imagine ANR glass somehow improves image quality over no glass (other than the obvious film flatness advantage where it's needed).

loccdor · Jun 20, 2024

I got my anti-newton glass from Knight Optical. They sell many sizes. It was about $100 for 2 pieces of 6x9 cm with overseas shipping.

https://www.knightoptical.com/stock/default/windows-and-diffusers/diffusers/anti-newton.html

I did experience newton rings when using glass negative carriers without anti newton ring etching. I also experience newton rings when I have a piece of the ANR glass turned backwards.

Patrick Robert James · Jun 20, 2024

If it works…. years ago I used non glare plexiglass from Home Depot as a top anti-newton glass of sorts. It worked. I use the same stuff to this day to hold negs flat on the scanner.

If you do find that you get newton rings with the regular glass you can always use corn starch. I’ve had to resort to that a few times with Acros.

DREW WILEY · Jun 20, 2024

BHuji - if your techique improves through more precison, or if you need bigger enlargements, you might very well see a difference in glass quality per se. Whether or not you need actual AN glass or not is a different issue. I see you're in Utah, which is predominantly a low-humidity region, which has less risk of Newton rings. I'm here on SF Bay on the West Coast, where it's about 60 degrees and foggy right now, and where rings are a constant issue. So climate has a lot to do with it.

Otherwise, official carrier glass is often superior to ordinary window glass, although PPG window glass manufacturing has steadily improved due to the high demand for e-coatings, which require an especially smooth surface. But I can't imagine a place like Cheapo Depot offering anything of that level of quality. Enlarger glass is generally thinner too. But if you're happy with what you have, that all that counts.

I mention these things because different variables are indeed involved, and climate characteristics are one of them.

BHuij · Jun 20, 2024

Yep, you fight Newton rings, and I have to maintain a religious zealotry in my anti-static film loading rituals to avoid dust on my sheets at time of exposure

DREW WILEY · Jun 20, 2024

Have you used anti-static spray on you film holders? Dry winter days in the Southwest can be quite a challenge. Back when I mainly shot a Sinar 4x5 atop a metal tripod, what I did was actually ground the rear standard using a length of thin speaker wire with an alligator clip at one end, and a sizable nail at the other end. It helped.

But once March winds arrive, clay playas and their pervasive dust can be a hopeless scenario, especially in places like Death Valley.

In terms of loading the holders in the first place, I like to do that in the clean room here prior to travel. If I do have to use a film tent in transit, there is a special protocol I have for that. But for quite awhile, that was alleviated once Readyload and Quickload sleeves were perfected. Too bad they're gone now. And 8x10 presents its own problems. I had to be especially careful since I mainly printed Cibachrome for many years, which is very difficult to retouch.

eli griggs · Jun 20, 2024

Nokton48 said:
I've yet to have Durst ANR Glass arrive here unbroken. Given up on that!

Kevin at KHB has the glass he uses in his Omegas. I ordered a piece big enough to contact print 8x10 Negs. Worth every penny, it's the real deal.

This is what I want to do, my glass contact easels all have thick, plate glass though I'll have to be more gentle with the thinner stuff, if I can get some, at some future date.

BHuij · Jun 21, 2024

I haven't tried anti static spray. I also load my film holders in the darkroom prior to heading out for a shoot, and generally I give them a good brushing with my anti static brush, and then a thorough vacuuming with a small USB-powered brush-tip vacuum I bought specifically for the purpose. After loading (and during shooting) I have to be very careful not to slide the dark slides in or out too quickly and generate a static charge.

I have yet to shoot a single frame in 7 years of 4x5 work that was loaded into the film holder in my dark bag and didn't have dust on the neg at time of exposure. I have completely given up on using the dark bag for that purpose.

DREW WILEY · Jun 21, 2024

The right kind of spray antistaticum applied to both the darkslide (both sides), and the holder itself can last for years. I never had good luck with antistatic brushes; and they lose their charge after awhile. I do use triple filtered low-pressure air when loading holders, aiming it at an industrIal quality air filter. And I wear a 100% dacron cleanroom smock which is basically lint-free. I rarely get dust spots even in the desert (I certainly did when I was first learning).

Oh ... one more thing, don't set up next to a dirt road unless you're sure no traffic is going to come by; that can ruin an entire trip - but you probably already know that; same with horse riders.

Carnie Bob · Jun 21, 2024

There was a company in Florida making top and bottom glass for various size enlargers, I wonder if they are still in business I think they were named focal ''''

ANR Glass and negative carriers

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