Another thinking of juming into large format photography thread

[Malinku]

So lately I've been extremely board with my manual focus 35mm cameras. Been using my 6x6 tlrs instead for the most part. I've thought that I might want to move up to working with a bigger negative size.

Now I mainly shoot landscapes, and portraits.

My local camera store has a few crown/speed graphics, and a gowland aerial camera. Any of those good for a beginner to large format to learn on? I'll be trying them out tomorrow.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I went same route. 135, 6x6 to 4x5 RF Anniversary and Crown Speed Graphic, also Calumet View 4x5 Camera. I think, every film photography enthusiast must try it at least.
I have tried it and went back to 135. I could fit on the countertop three 11x14 trays and small enlarger. I can't fit 4x5 enlarger and same trays...

 

[Alan Gales]

The Crowns and Speeds were press cameras. They were shot handheld and were great for what they were used for. The problem is that the bellows can be a bit short for portraits if you want to do head or head and shoulder shots. The movements can be seriously lacking for other work.

You can pick up a used monorail for very cheap. I've seen working cameras without a lens go for as low as $50.00. It will do anything that you want to do with it. The only problem is that they are bulky and heavier than most field cameras.

Field cameras can do landscapes and portraits if you get one with enough bellows draw. A decent used wooden field will run you $700 and up without lens.

A good choice may be two cameras. A Crown or Speed and a monorail or a field camera and a monorail if you get a field with short 12" bellows.

Check out this great free info from the Large Format Photography Forum.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info

 

[Sirius Glass]

Alan pointed out some of the differences. Monorails are really hard to use hand held. A Crown or Speed Graphic can also be used as a view camera with limited movement and there are short telephotos for portraits. The Speed Graphic with its focal plane shutter will allow one to use less expensive barrel lens which vary from very inexpensive to major budget buster prices. If one starts with a Crown or Speed Graphic and then later moves to a monorail, all the lenses [with shutters] can be used on the monorail and the Crown or Speed can be sold for about what one paid for them.

 

[Doc W]

A Crown Graphic is not a bad choice. I started with one and it got me into the ball park. It doesn't have a lot of movements but the front standard can be flipped quite easily for front tilt which is a very important movement for landscape photography. As others have pointed out, the bellows is a bit too short for close portraits but it is fine as long as you want to include more than just head and shoulders. The Crown is lighter than the Speed and is the better choice between the two, in my opinion. A really great beginner camera, however, is the Super Graphic which has lots of front movements and a back that rotates. It has a metal body with which you could drive nails. It is a very durable camera. I used a Super as my main camera for some time until I got a field camera with full movements. If you go that route, just get a solid Super Graphic and not the Super Speed Graphic with the fancy fast shutter Optar lens (known affectionately as the "exploding" shutter). Get a decent lens for it and it will serve you well. Don't forget that you can also get roll film backs (6x6, I think, 6x7, and 6x9) for all of these.

 

[gone]

A Crown Graphic would be a great place to start (although I never considered 4x5 really LF. Others will disagree). Make sure the one you're looking at is 4x5 because they made smaller ones that often have film sizes that are difficult to find film for. These are simple, sturdy, wonderful cameras.

Many times I see people buy a 4x5 camera and slap a roll film back on them to shoot 6x6 or 6x9. That one I really don't understand, because that's a big camera to shoot such a small format with. Make sure you don't over spend in case you discover that LF is not really for you.

An Optar is a fine lens, but a Kodak Ektar is sharper. While I never had a shutter explode on me, I did have several that you had to put on a pair of gloves to change the speeds. Some of the old Graphex shutters are like that. A Speed Graphic is good too, but much heavier than a Crown Graphic. Not everyone turns out to be a LF shooter, so have an open mind on that. I found it too slow, the camera and film holders too big to pack up, and didn't like taking a tripod around w/ me.

A Super Speed Graphic is a really nice camera. Mine had a conventional shutter that avoided the problems w/ the factory shutter.

 

[removed account4]

for portraits the graphics are perfect, for landscapes, well, if you have been using tlr/35mm the graphics will be good for that too.
they have a little rise and side to side shift, but not much. that said they will help you get your feet wet and learn what LF is all about.
don't forget you will need a handful of things like a sturdy tripod if you get tired of handheld ( a tiltall will work if you have one ) and a dark cloth
( big piece of dark fabric at your favorite fabric store will save you big bucks ) if the range finder attachment is calibrated for a different lens a light meter,
(unless you are OK with sunny 16 ) and a handful ( or 1 ) film holders to load with your favorite film ( or paper ). processing 4x5 film isn't as easy sometimes
as roll film. with rolls you spool them and stick them in a tank, with sheets its a little more involved, and there are a bunch of options
from film racks you stick in your already been using 35mm tank ( mod 54 i think it is called ) or an elastic band around the film in your film tank ( look up taco method )
or in open trays to shuffle or slosh, or a rotary processor, or day light tanks ... poke around and see what you can find. if you don't mind off looking tones
you can expose paper inside your film holders ( just trim a tiny bit off ) and load them up with your favorite photo paper. use a yellow under the enlarger filter to
help you with the contrast and rate it at about 24 or 12 or 6 depending on the light. you can process the paper just like you would any paper in a safe light environment.

good luck !
john

 

[Jim Jones]

For information on the Graphic line of cameras, see http://graflex.org/. For even more information, look for Graphic Graflex Photography by Morgan & Lester (or Morgan & Morgan in later editions). The 11th edition is needed to cover up through top rangefinder model Graphics. I believe the 9th and 10th cover up through the side rangefinder Pathfinder models. The 8th and earlier editions cover only the Anniversary models.

The Anniversary model is less versatile than the Pathfinder series introduced in 1947, but it does use the same 4" square lens board as did many other cameras of its day. The Pathfinder series uses a proprietary stamped lens board. Many parts have been interchanged between different Graphic models, or are missing. It helps to know what should be on any model you consider buying. Some sellers, especially online, don't know.

 

[Dan Fromm]

There's a law of nature to the effect that a user's first 4x5 camera is always the wrong camera for the user. So don't worry about making a bad mistake, its inevitable.

A Graphic would be a good first camera, the Gowland aerial camera wouldn't. And if you find that a Graphic doesn't suit you, you can sell it and get most, if not all, of its cost back. If, that is, you didn't pay way too much in the first place.

Go ahead! Jum right in!

 

[Ian Grant]

As someone who's been using LF for 40 years now I wouldn't suggest a Crown or Speed Graphic as a first LF camera and I do use them. I'd suggest a Super Graphic instead because it has better movements something I need for landscapes.

I use my Super Graphic and a Crown Graphic hand-held as well as on a tripod, but far prefer the Super as frequently the movements of the Crown are inadequate & non existent when used in portrait mode.

Ian

 

[Alan Gales]

I have held a Super Graphic. Also a friend of mine owns a Super Speed Graphic. The only difference besides the name I believe is that the Super Speed came with a lens with a very fast shutter.

The negative I see to the Super Graphic is the price they are asking for them today. For a little bit more money you can buy a real field camera like a nice used wooden Shen Hao. Of course you can't shoot a field camera hand held.

I used to own a Crown Graphic. I had the 135 and I added a small 210 lens. It was great for portraits as long as I didn't want close ups but I also owned a monorail at the time for that. I didn't shoot it hand held though. I can get better results shooting a medium format camera hand held due to camera shake. I do have a bad back though so I am speaking for myself.

Like Dan wisely tells you, you may not keep your first camera so don't fret it. There is no magic bullet. All cameras have their advantages and disadvantages.

 

[scheimfluger_77]

I second the suggestion of a Crown Graphic. I used one for a long time and still have it. They set up fast and are relatively light weight.

 

[Malinku]

So I ended up getting a Crown Graphic set-up. As It cames with a Caltar II-N 135mm f5.6 in a Copal #0 shutter, 4 Fidelity Elite film holders and 4 boxed of expired 4x5 film (Agfapan APX 100, Ilford Delta 100, Ilford FP4, and Kodak Plus-X Pan). Now The fun part starts.

 

[Alan Gales]

So I ended up getting a Crown Graphic set-up. As It cames with a Caltar II-N 135mm f5.6 in a Copal #0 shutter, 4 Fidelity Elite film holders and 4 boxed of expired 4x5 film (Agfapan APX 100, Ilford Delta 100, Ilford FP4, and Kodak Plus-X Pan). Now The fun part starts.

Congratulations. Shoot with that lens and learn if you like 4x5.

If you end up liking the Crown and want a longer lens then I'll let you in on a little secret. Rodenstock made a lens called the Geronar 210mm f/6.8. They also made a Caltar version. They are great little inexpensive lenses that are short enough to just barely fold up inside a Crown Graphic. A 135mm and a 210mm make a nice pairing!

 

[Malinku]

Congratulations. Shoot with that lens and learn if you like 4x5.

If you end up liking the Crown and want a longer lens then I'll let you in on a little secret. Rodenstock made a lens called the Geronar 210mm f/6.8. They also made a Caltar version. They are great little inexpensive lenses that are short enough to just barely fold up inside a Crown Graphic. A 135mm and a 210mm make a nice pairing!

Yeah I 210mm would be good to get at some point but got to learn my 135mm lens first

 

[Alan Gales]

Yeah I 210mm would be good to get at some point but got to learn my 135mm lens first

I agree. Sheet film isn't for everyone. See if you like it first. Then you may like it but prefer a different camera so you want a different lens.

My first large format camera was a used Cambo monorail. A month or two later the Seller wanted it back and offered me $100 more because his boss wanted it. I then bought a new Tachihara 4x5 field camera. I wanted more bellows draw for portraits so I added a Sinar P monorail. I decided that I wanted an 8x10 and sold the Tachihara and later the Sinar. I had a Crown Graphic in there too. So far I'm happy with the 8x10. I have a 4x5 reduction back for it so I can shoot both formats.

Shooting large format can be kind of an evolution thing with cameras and lenses. Of course I could also say the same about medium format and 35mm. I've owned a bunch of cameras and lenses over the years. I do very little now but I used to sell on Ebay quite a bit so I got to try a bunch of stuff.

Have fun with it!