Another Minox question

Why don't we have a subminiature forum separate from "Lo-Fi" -- many 110, 16 mm, and Minox format cameras are far from Lo-Fi aside from the negative size.

But really, that's not the question I wanted to ask. Rather, how do I tell if my Minox daylight loading tank is the original version that would accept 50 frame film, or the later one that only took up to 36 frames?

You can tell it by the stop ring that has to be dropped into the tank. A 50 exp tank has a stop ring that has a hight of less than an inch, the difference between 50 and 36 exp. being not that much. A 36 exp tank has a stop ring of much more height, the difference between 36 and 15 exp is more than half of the hight.

Stop ring?? Now I need to check my tank when I'm home, I don't recall seeing a stop ring. The helical part screws all the way down, so the stop ring may not be with my tank. And nothing in the instruction sheet (which I do have) mentions shorter rolls or a stop ring.

It’s a separate bakelite tube piece that you drop in the tank.

...and it should be mentioned in both versions of the instructions sheets...

Okay, let me look at the instructions again -- there were multiple sheets, I thought the others were just the same thing in a couple other languages (the next one had Spanish on the front).

Okay, I spotted a set of instructions online that are explicitly for the 50 frame version, and they call for more developer; the tank I have (and the developer package) wants 40 ml, while the instructions I found (dated from 1970) mention 53 ml (or 65 if developing 36 exposures in the 50 exposure tank without the stop ring). When were the 36/15 tanks introduced -- wouldn't it have been after the C came out, since all III/IIIs/A and B models could take 50 frame films?

Yes, they switched to 36 in 1969 with the launch of the C model.

Okay, I'll have to look for the print date on the instruction I have (and turn the tank base over to see if there's a stop ring inside -- though I don't think there is, because the core screws right down to the bottom). I presume I could make one out of suitably sized PVC pipe (seems like 1 1/4" Sched 40 should be close).

Looks a bit like I may have to get a Paterson compatible reel and master the technique of jamming the film end with a piece of foam to keep only the base side in contact with the plastic. Modern (hand loaded by Blue Moon or FPP) film doesn't have the buttonhole in the end anyway, so I'd have to punch it for the core screw.

Hmmm. Looking at some eBay listings, it also appears the 50 frame tanks have 7 turns to the helical core, while the 36 have only five. That I can verify when I get home...

You can find some creative ways to make Minox reels at:

www.subclub.org/creative/reel.htm

Okay, I checked my tank and instructions. The instructions were apparently printed in 1955, when the only Minox were Riga and III/A and everyone shot 50 frames. It has seven turns of the helix on the core, and NO STOP RING at all, nor do the 1955 instructions even mention one.

I was incorrect in recalling 40 ml for the tank -- it's "fill until you see liquid in the neck" -- it's only the Minox developer and fixer that call for 40 ml of water (which seems like it would be enough for the later 36 frame version of the tank). The instructions I found online say I can develop 36 exposure film in the 50 frame tank without a stop ring, I just have to use the same volume of liquid I'd use for a 50 frame roll (I guess I stop screwing the core in when the film comes taut from its attachment to the takeup core in the cartridge; if I pull it off the spool it'll be loose in the tank, which seems bad).

It looks like I can use a common hole punch to punch a hole in the film tail about 3/4 inch from the end to catch the screw after the end is under the spring tab; those aren't hard to come by, though I might have to shop around for one barely big enough for the screw head, as a regular punch is 6.35 mm diameter and the film is only 9.2 mm wide...

Well, I just found a video of someone developing a rather old roll of APX25 in a Minox cassette, and the film had a "keyhole" near the tail end. I don't know how well a round hole would work to catch the screw and keep the film on the helix.

Does anyone know of a source for a ~5 mm big end "buttonhole" or "keyhole" plier punch? I've seen them in a bunch of different whimsical shapes, aside from the standard 1/4" round hole, and I think there was a source back when I wanted a Minox but couldn't afford one...

Edit: I now see from Julian Tanase's site that a 3 mm punch works better -- that's close enough to 1/8", I might be able to source one of those off Amazon.

When I loaded my own Minox film, I never bothered making the "keyhole" for the developing tank. Just taping the end of the film to the bottom of the spiral, going over the bottom and up slightly inside with a piece of masking tape, always held it perfectly. I developed more than 80 rolls this way over the years.

And I never used the stop ring for the 36-exp loads. Why? The miniscule extra amount of chemicals? You don't need it to determine the end, it's pretty obvious when you reach the end when loading the spiral with a 36 load: it just stops and resists further turning.

Well, I bought a 1/8 hole punch, which I read online was the correct size to fit over the screw head; we'll see how that goes. Tape is a backup, but I've had poor results with masking tape staying in place in developer. I'll see how it goes when I process my first roll, since I'm fairly sure whoever loads the film for Blue Moon doesn't punch the keyhole, either.

The stop ring apparently didn't exist until the 50 frame films were no longer the standard, and I'm not sure what it gains anyway, other than saving almost a half ounce of developer. As you note, if the film is properly taped to the spool in the cartridge, it'd take some effort to pull it off so it's loose in the tank.

And now: how do people store their Minox negatives these days? AFAIK no one is still making the old negative wallets. I think I could improvise something with zipper bags and a heat sealer, but it would be a lot easier to buy something if it's available.

Donald Qualls said:

And now: how do people store their Minox negatives these days? AFAIK no one is still making the old negative wallets. I think I could improvise something with zipper bags and a heat sealer, but it would be a lot easier to buy something if it's available.

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I just cut them and put them into 35mm sheets. Like I do with the 110 film strips. You can put 2 films per sheet or even 3 for shorter Minox film.

xya said:

I just cut them and put them into 35mm sheets. Like I do with the 110 film strips. You can put 2 films per sheet or even 3 for shorter Minox film.

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Hmm. With the old standard of ten Minox frames per strip, and a few minutes with a heat sealer (to modify half a dozen negative pages) I could put four Minox rolls of up to 50 frames in a single 35 mm page -- by dividing each negative sleeve into two horizontally, and again vertically. Might work...

If you guys are still looking at storing Minox or 16mm films I have the best film sleeves on the planet. Made by MicroTec. Feel free to contact me for some freebees

spookyphoto said:

If you guys are still looking at storing Minox or 16mm films I have the best film sleeves on the planet. Made by MicroTec. Feel free to contact me for some freebees

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I'd love to get my hands on some real minox-format sleeves! I've been taking 35mm pages and melting a line down the middle of each channel with a soldering iron to make two half-width channels. Works ok, but looks ugly!

FriedLouisStudio said:

When I loaded my own Minox film, I never bothered making the "keyhole" for the developing tank. Just taping the end of the film to the bottom of the spiral, going over the bottom and up slightly inside with a piece of masking tape, always held it perfectly. I developed more than 80 rolls this way over the years.

Click to expand...

I found a pair of hole punches that together could create the keyhole but like you I found it was easier to just tape the film to the spiral. I was a little surprised it held, but it seems to most of the time.

xya said:

You can tell it by the stop ring that has to be dropped into the tank. A 50 exp tank has a stop ring that has a hight of less than an inch, the difference between 50 and 36 exp. being not that much.

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For what it's worth, my tank didn't come with a stop ring or any separate part, unless I'm misunderstanding what a stop ring is. But since I'm cutting all my own film and the lengths end up pretty random, it probably wouldn't help anyway.

qqphot said:

I'd love to get my hands on some real minox-format sleeves! I've been taking 35mm pages and melting a line down the middle of each channel with a soldering iron to make two half-width channels. Works ok, but looks ugly!

I found a pair of hole punches that together could create the keyhole but like you I found it was easier to just tape the film to the spiral. I was a little surprised it held, but it seems to most of the time.



For what it's worth, my tank didn't come with a stop ring or any separate part, unless I'm misunderstanding what a stop ring is. But since I'm cutting all my own film and the lengths end up pretty random, it probably wouldn't help anyway.

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Send me your address and I'll send you 20 sleeves