Another lithium vs alkaline battery puzzler

[xkaes]

I've got FOUR Vivitar 283 flashes that have an odd problem. They all work fine on AA lithium batteries, but they will not do anything with fresh Energizer AA alkaline batteries -- tested at 1.6+ volts.

Any reasonable explanations?

Should I just try a different brand? That makes no sense to me!

 

[BrianShaw]

Makes no sense at all. Are you sure the batteries were loaded correctly? That’s the only thing I could imagine would cause that phenomenon.

 

[koraks]

alkaline batteries

The current delivery capacity of alkaline batteries is really limited.
Using alkaline batteries in something like a flash unit is trying to make an ocean-going sailing ship leave the harbor by coughing in the general direction of the sails.

 

[BrianShaw]

They (Energizer and Duracell AA alkaline batteries) work just fine in my Vivitar 285’s…

 

[koraks]

Sure; some will work in some devices. But alkaline batteries are generally a poor choice for any device that involves momentary high current drain patterns. Even if it works, the capacity of the alkaline batteries will be dramatically lower compared to a more steady low-current drain scenario. Rechargeables are a more appropriate choice; lithium especially so, but NiMH and (previously) NiCd too.

 

[ic-racer]

In this test (not mine) the Lithium battery is "E2" and the others are various brands of Alkaline AA cells. As pointed out above, for example, under a load producing a 2A discharge, the voltage of the Alkaline cells drops dramatically in a relatively short period of time compared to the Lithium battery. This low voltage may not be enough to drive the voltage multiplier in your flash units.

 

[xkaes]

I've been using AA alkalines in my 283 flashes for over 30 years. No problema. That's what Vivitar recommended when they produced the 283. Not good enough? That makes no sense.

 

[koraks]

I've been using AA alkalines in my 283 flashes for over 30 years. No problema. That's what Vivitar recommended when they produced the 283. Not good enough? That makes no sense.

Well, then your problem doesn't exist. Great!

But yeah:

Should I just try a different brand?

Try that. There will be differences between brands. The chart @ic-racer posted shows it. It's taken from this page, have a look: https://www.powerstream.com/AA-tests.htm

 

[MattKing]

Has someone modified the flashes? People used to use Nicads with them.

 

[Dan Fromm]

I've been using AA alkalines in my 283 flashes for over 30 years. No problema. That's what Vivitar recommended when they produced the 283. Not good enough? That makes no sense.

I've been using AA alkalines in my 283s for at least that long too. Never a problem.

 

[BrianShaw]

Are you using the same battery cassette for all of your tests? If so, look carefully to see if there is a defect heretofore undetected.

 

[xkaes]

The battery holders are fine. They work in all of the flashes. The AA batteries do not. -- and I've tried several stacks of batteries,.

I hope they are all duds, but they all read 1.6" volts and work fine in everything else.

 

[maltfalc]

1.6v at zero current draw is meaningless. if their internal resistance is too high you'll get too much of a voltage drop at high currents to charge your capacitor to the minimum voltage necessary to fire, and your batteries will quickly die. better off using nimh, they can handle much higher currents with less voltage drop, despite their lower initial voltage.

 

[xkaes]

Great to know, although Vivitar just says ALKALINE -- which has worked fine for 30 years.

 

[tokam]

I have been using rechargeable AA's, NiCd and NiMH, in flashes for over 40 years without problems. Although they have lower nominal voltages than alkalines they can deliver higher current (until they are exhausted). My Vivitar 285HV flashes, among many others, love rechargeables. Vivitar would have recommended alkalines back in the 1970's in preference to the older zinc based batteries. NiCd may not have been too well known or too expensive in the '70s.

The only accessory I had that needed the higher voltage of fresh alkalines was a Canon Power Winder A. It just didn't like 4 x 1.2V NiCd batteries.

 

[dokko]

I find the best and most affordable option is actually using quality rechargeable batteries for AA and AAA cells.

they have higher capacity than Alkaline, keep up better under cold temperatures, allow for faster flash recharge cycles, are cheaper and better for the environment.
Panasonic eneloop are excellent, as are the IKEA house brand ones.

the only reason to use lithium is if I'm in extremely cold weather, or really need the slightly higher capacity or recharge cycles.

 

[xkaes]

I tested the same AA batteries (that do NOT work in these FOUR Vivitar 283 flashes) in Minolta Auto 118x, Auto 200x, Auto 132, and Program 2500 D flashes and they all fire up perfectly.

So these batteries are good, but they will not fire up these FOUR 283sa -- although lithium batteries won't.

I've had a similar problem with lithium batteries in the Minolta MAXXUM 5 camera. One brand of lithium battery will work with the camera, and another brand won't.

In short, don't "throw out" your gear because it won't "turn on". Try a different brand of battery.

 

[BrianShaw]

So the Energizers wouldn’t work; which battery brand worked in your 283’s?

 

[Andreas Thaler]

Possibly oxidation of the battery contacts and some of the battery voltage remains there due to resistance?

 

[xkaes]

The Energizer Lithium works in the 283, but Energizer makes different SUB-brands of alkaline & lithium batteries -- just to confuse things.

I don't recall the brands of lithium batteries that worked in my Maxxum 5, and the ones that don't -- but it sure is a PITA.

I've bought photo gear that the seller could not get to turn ON, but they worked great for me -- because I used a different battery brand.

I've also SOLD photo gear that I could not get to turn ON, but the buyer got it to work great -- because they used a different battery brand.

What a PITA.

 

[xkaes]

Possibly oxidation of the battery contacts and some of the battery voltage remains there due to resistance?

Good try, but all contacts in all of these flashes -- there are FOUR 283 flashes -- are fine. AND they all work fine with lithium batteries.

And all battery contacts are clean. These are NEW batteries.

 

[mshchem]

You can't understand the state of a battery without a proper tester. I use a MBT-1 pulse load tester made by ZTS inc. www.ztsinc.com My friend who ran a camera shop for 40 years showed me how this works. Greatest of all time battery tester.