Another Agfa paper rumor -- confirm, anybody?

We are becoming a service economy producing such services as sales people, waiters and waitresses, and hamburger flippers. Oh, and actors, actresses, sports heros and attorneys.

Our doctors are Indian, Pakistani and etc. And very good I might add. But there are about 6% fewer here due to the costs of running a doctors office including malpractice insurance.

Many of our major scientists are Asian and European.

Our schools are a wreck. We teach at HS level what the French learn in grade school. We teach for an MS what the Japanese learn for a BS. I got this from an undersecretary to the Japanese minister of education.

We cancelled the new top of the line supercollider that would put us in the forefront of physics and the Hubble telescope was manufactured improperly. The first Mars orbiter crashed due to errors in calculations.

I could go on. But why? If we are not careful, we will be a third world country and if you don't believe me read history. Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it!

PE

jstraw said:

Most Americans (most, not *you* of course, whoever *you* may be ) that deride Europeans for their six weeks of vacation and their two-hour, cafe lunches have never been across the pond to witness the quality of life that's possible in a culture where people work to live, rather than live to work...who put time with family ahead of having three large cars and a half-dozen televisions...and who haven't let themselves become slaves to corporations that have propogandized their workers to be proud of a mythical "AMERICAN work ethic." I finally made the trip and I didn't feel derisive when I left Europe. I felt unconsolably envious.

Most Americans that ditifully accept all the "greatest country on earth" stuff have *nothing* to compare it to.

I love my country. I'm a patriot. That's why I'm always thinking about how we can make America better.

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I agree with your sentiments. I worked in Italy for 6 months back in 2001 and would gladly go back.

As I said, productivity numbers are one thing...but there is a tradeoff between "quantity of life" and "quality of life" and most people in the USA do not take pause to note the difference.

ADOX FOTOIMPEX said:

The current expected timeframes are: Sample review in March, first test coatings on a production line from a batch of more than 500 liters of emulsion: Mai.
These first production line samples can then be handed out to selected knowledgeable fine printers to get multiple feed back.

Mirko

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The best news from the photographic front I've heard for months! I have been using Agfa papers for more than 40 years from monograde fiber to MMC112 and anything between and really know how they feel in the darkroom. Sign me up for a batch! If they are coming to the market I surely will try to use them for the next 40 years if I make it. But I am quite confident they will as I have done business with Fotoimpex.de before and I know they deliver!

Photo Engineer said:

We are becoming a service economy producing such services as sales people, waiters and waitresses, and hamburger flippers. Oh, and actors, actresses, sports heros and attorneys.

Our doctors are Indian, Pakistani and etc. And very good I might add. But there are about 6% fewer here due to the costs of running a doctors office including malpractice insurance.

Many of our major scientists are Asian and European.

Our schools are a wreck. We teach at HS level what the French learn in grade school. We teach for an MS what the Japanese learn for a BS. I got this from an undersecretary to the Japanese minister of education.

We cancelled the new top of the line supercollider that would put us in the forefront of physics and the Hubble telescope was manufactured improperly. The first Mars orbiter crashed due to errors in calculations.

I could go on. But why? If we are not careful, we will be a third world country and if you don't believe me read history. Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it!

PE

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Not only in your neck of the woods PE. I haven't been able to buy anything made in North America for some time, including machinery. Definitely not a vehicle. Most of the quality printing paper here now is European and they don't even have trees.
When something proper is done, such as liberating the people of Grenada from a despotic regime and spiked runways, the bleeding hearts label it an invasion.
In order to have a deja vu replay of the Roman Empire all we need is to rely on a mercenary army.
Just my rant for today
Mark

Mark Layne said:

In order to have a deja vu replay of the Roman Empire all we need is to rely on a mercenary army.
Mark

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We already are. The US is "outsourcing" "security forces" in Iraq. That's Bushspeak for "mercenaries." And it leads to absurd results, in too many ways to begin to catalogue them here. Not to mention the loss of accountability.

Don't get me started.

Sanders

Let's try to keep this to information about Agfa paper and its reinvention. There are plenty of other places to talk politics.

Sorry David. You are right of course. Maybe this has run its course and should be closed? IDK, but we have strayed pretty far afield.

PE

Well, if it doesn't get dragged into the SoapBox or require further moderation, then it would be nice to leave it open for updates from Mirko or anyone else with real information.

Photo Engineer said:

Sorry David. You are right of course. Maybe this has run its course and should be closed? IDK, but we have strayed pretty far afield.

PE

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I guess its a pass for me too. As of tomorrow I'll be sitting on the beach sipping Dr Beers.
Mark

I agree we should keep this open for the sake of updates from Mirko...

Current Agfa paper...yes I said Current!!

The Agfa/Gaevart operation in Belgium coats b/w paper and color paper. It is in long rolls, and intended for printing of images taken with the various aerial photography films they also make. Here is the description straight from their website:

:Rapitone P1-P2: Photographic continuous tone papers in 4 gradations and 2 surfaces, used for making enlargements, contact copies and mosaics. Their gradations are adapted for good continuous tone rendering.

:Rapitone M2: Photographic black-and-white semi-matt paper with variable contrast through the use of colored filters. The paper has a gradual variation in gradation from extra low to very high contrast by using black-and-wnite enlargers with multi-contrast filters or enlarges equipped with la colorhead or filter head for multi-contrast paper.

and their color paper:

:Rapitone C1-C2 Aerial Papers: professional enlarging materials with a polyethylene resin-coated base, designed for the production of prints from color aerial negatives. Camera, internegative and copy films can be used as negatives. :Rapitone C1 has a glossy surface and C2 has a semi-matt surface.

So, there you have it...I wouldnt be a bit surprised if some relabelers already sell this stuff cut into sheets.

Ah, it is interesting isn't it, and back on topic, at last! Horray!!

Current Agfa films..yes Current!

The Agfa/Gaevart operation in Belgium (separate from Agfa/Germany) coats numerous b/w & color films in its Aerial Photography division. These could be (and some already are, by remarketers) cut and finished to fit 35mm and 120 cameras.

Here are the product descriptions:

:Aviphot Pan 80 PE1 and PE0: High resolution, intermediate speed, fine grain panchromatic negative film for low to high altitude flights. The very fine graininess and the high sharpness of the film make it ideal for use in mmilitary high altitude reconnaissance and for detailed mapping applications.

:Aviphot Pan 200 PE1, PE0 and PE0-AR: Medium speed, fine grain panchromatic film for low to medium altitude flights. Average gradient can vary between 0.8 and 1.6.

:Aviphot Pan 400S PE1 and PE0: High speed, low fog, fine grain panchromatic negative film for low to medium altitude flights. Suitable for poor light conditions. Aerage gradient variation between 0.6 and 1.1.

:Avitone P1p and P3p: Negative acting, orthochromatic continuous tone films for making diapositive from black-and-white originals. Extremely fine grain emulsion gives enhanced contrast through reproduction.

:Avitone P1p-HR and P3p-HR: Negative acting, blue sensitive very high resolution films for making diapositives from black-and-white originals. Microfiche grain film suitable for copying high altitude films with extremely fine graininess. High scratch-resistance and secure film conveying in fast duplicatiors.

:Avitone PD1p-OS and PD3p-OS: Orthochromatic continuous tone diapositive film suitable for copying medium to fine grain recording films. The film is suitable for use in the Open Skies project. The very accurate information and high definition are important for copying reconnaissance photographs.

And now let us turn to color negative and transparency films:

:Aviphot Color X100 PE1: Color negative film without color mask for low, medium and high altitude flights. Suitable for electronic image scanning for the reproduction of clean and saturated colors wihtout additional color correction.

:Aviphot Color X400 PE1: Panchromatic negative maskless color film with high color saturation, designed for aerial photography from low to medium altitudes. It is also suitable for industrial applications requiring a high speed film whereby images are scanned from the film . This film gives excellent definition and lower granularity than a masked film with the same photographic speed.

:Aviphot Color N400 PE1: Color negative film with minimum granularity, high definition and high speed, featuring a perfectly balanced color saturation for low to medium altitude flights.

:Aviphot Color N800 PE1: Color negative film, designed for high-speed aerial photography (up to an altitude of 15,000 ft) or scientific photography. The film renders excellent definition and low granularity, combined with a very high speed emulsion.

:Aviphot Chrome 200 PE1: Panchromatic color reversal film, rendeirng a sharp, low grain positive image with natural colors and very good color saturation. Suitable for low to medium altitude flying.

:Avitone CP70: Negative color copying film with medium color saturation, high brilliance, extra fine grain and ultimate sharpness for making highest quality diapositives from aerial negatives, for use in orthoplotters. Scanning of diapositives without loss of resolution or information.

:Avitone CP94: Negative color copying film with high color saturation and brilliance, optimised contrast range and excellent sharpness for making diapositives from aerial negatives, for use in photoplotters. Also used for making transparency displays.

You may find the descriptions above very similar to some products being offered by independent converters and finishers.

Lotsa stuff..

Current Agfa direct reversal film

Here recently some vendor in Germany was advertising a new direct reversal b/w film, that doesn't need reversal type processing. Well Agfa/Gaevart makes one:

from their web site:

COM Film

In addition to the source document films, Agfa also has a complete range of top-quality COM films and chemicals. Alongside the conventional high-sensitive Datarex films for CRT COM recorders, we present our line of environment-friendly ECOPOS films.

The EcoPos range are direct-reversal films for use in COM recorders. The traditional five processing baths have been reduced to only two, drastically cutting down on chemical consumption and completely eliminating the contaminating bleach bath. As waste disposal is halved and silver recycling easy, it is also an economical process.

Needless to say, EcoPos films meet Agfa's usual high standards offering excellent image and duplicating quality. Other key features include a permanent anti-static back layer.

It's great to know selling TSF film, micro film and film for military specs on the consumer market, specified on the 35mm and 120 roll films AND have excellent results with this kind of materials.
Maybe one of the reasons some films can survive under the high pressure of digitalisation at the moment.

WITHOUT the TSF and micro film market the whole film industry maybe had collapsed already or was in fact in bigger trouble than some manufacturers are already. Of course same is valid for some medical industry. Thanks to that part some factories will survive also in the consumer market.

Flexible confectioning of materials in smaller amount will be the solution in the near future to secure our need for film and photo paper materials. Do you care if your film base is made on X-ray PET layer? I don't care as long as the quality is on an acceptable level.
Even the use of TSF film has some advantages when making photos under strong tungsten lights because the film has an extended (almost N.I.R.) spectrum.
So whatever the solution will be in the near future: The most important thing is that we can continue using our photo materials.

PHOTOTONE said:

The Agfa/Gaevart operation in Belgium (separate from Agfa/Germany) coats numerous b/w & color films in its Aerial Photography division. These could be (and some already are, by remarketers) cut and finished to fit 35mm and 120 cameras.

Here are the product descriptions:

:Aviphot Pan 80 PE1 and PE0: High resolution, intermediate speed, fine grain panchromatic negative film for low to high altitude flights. The very fine graininess and the high sharpness of the film make it ideal for use in mmilitary high altitude reconnaissance and for detailed mapping applications.

:Aviphot Pan 200 PE1, PE0 and PE0-AR: Medium speed, fine grain panchromatic film for low to medium altitude flights. Average gradient can vary between 0.8 and 1.6.

:Aviphot Pan 400S PE1 and PE0: High speed, low fog, fine grain panchromatic negative film for low to medium altitude flights. Suitable for poor light conditions. Aerage gradient variation between 0.6 and 1.1.

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I forget which ones but some of these had very good red response IIRC. I tried buying some years back but got nothing but ping ponged back and forth.

I'm not sure about cutting this stuff to 35mm. It was sold in 70mm 5 and I think 10"? Something like that. Isn't 35mm different base etc?

Nick Zentena said:

I forget which ones but some of these had very good red response IIRC. I tried buying some years back but got nothing but ping ponged back and forth.

I'm not sure about cutting this stuff to 35mm. It was sold in 70mm 5 and I think 10"? Something like that. Isn't 35mm different base etc?

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While 35mm may have a different base thickness in general specifications, I see no reason why other base thickness (thinner) wouldn't work just fine. After all, the pressure plate on a 35mm camera is spring-loaded and would still hold the film flat. At one time Ilford marketed a thinner base film that gave you 72 exposures per roll. Remember that?

jstraw said:

Most Americans (most, not *you* of course, whoever *you* may be ) that deride Europeans for their six weeks of vacation and their two-hour, cafe lunches have never been across the pond to witness the quality of life that's possible in a culture where people work to live, rather than live to work...who put time with family ahead of having three large cars and a half-dozen televisions...and who haven't let themselves become slaves to corporations that have propogandized their workers to be proud of a mythical "AMERICAN work ethic." I finally made the trip and I didn't feel derisive when I left Europe. I felt unconsolably envious.

Most Americans that dutifully accept all the "greatest country on earth" stuff have *nothing* to compare it to.

I love my country. I'm a patriot. That's why I'm always thinking about how we can make America better.

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Amen! Fortunately there's still at least one place in America where a similar concern for quality of life over quantity of money still prevails, though for how much longer is anyone's guess---Maine. Despite being a hugely different place than Paris in most respects, the concern for quality of life (emphasis on fresh, locally-grown foods, artisanal cheeses, lots of outdoor activities, village-community cohesion) drew us here. There are signs that the Disneyfication of Exurbia are on their way here too, but for awhile at least, it beats everywhere else in this country that I've been.

Larry