And Just How Stable is Color Film When Deep Frozen?

BradleyK · Feb 25, 2022

I picked up from The Lab, here in Vancouver, this morning, a dozen rolls of PB 01/14 E100G (120) that I shot two weeks ago in Jasper, AB as well as six rolls of PB 01/14 E100VS/E100G (35mm) that I shot earlier this week here in Vancouver. Much to my delight - and surprise - the colors appear to my eye to be quite accurate, and the film appears to have retained its speed (all film, in the interest of caution, was rated at box speed. All the film in question was purchased in May of 2012 from B&H and Adorama., and has been deep frozen (-20C, if my upright freezer is to be believed) since that date. Is my experience unusual? I'm curious as to whether I'm pushing my luck,. if I continue to shoot the film in the manner I have (box speed, no filters on the particular lens (es) used - I'm down to my last four pro-packs of this emulsion, and was planning on using the film to photograph the cherry blossoms here in Vancouver in another month/ six weeks or so. What have been your experiences shooting with expired E6?.

dmtnkl · Feb 25, 2022

Almost all expired E6 i have used has come out pretty much perfect. That would include some recently shot Fuji Sensia 100 expired in 2005 and Fuji Sensia 400 expired in 2010, among others. I always shoot at box speed. Most of the times the seller claimed the rolls were refrigerated or frozen. I also took care and put them in the freezer upon arrival.

The only exceptions were a roll of Elitechrome Extra Color expired in 2013 (strong blue/magenta color shifts) and a roll of Elitechrome 200 expired in 2010 (magenta fog in the shadows). Both were shot around 4 years ago. Could be because of improper storage before i got them, or it could also be that the lab messed them up. Nevertheless, both rolls yielded some pretty interesting images with a rather unique look that i liked a lot.

My conclusion is that properly stored E6 film lasts a long time. Especially if you are the original owner and took care of keeping it cold, you shouldn't worry too much about it.

Photomultiplier · Feb 26, 2022

Matches my experience, at least with low/medium fuji slide film and also Ilford/Kodak BW.

Because of a several year long hiatus in photography before i started again in 2020, i still had several packs of Velvia 50 and 100 as well as TMAX100 and FP4+ (all 120) in deep freeze at about -23°C
The oldest Velvia was dated 2011 and the newest 9/2013. All of them were immediately frozen as soon as i got them back then. Spare 1-2hrs out of the freezer when i moved from my parents home to my own
Since my restart i used a lot of the old stuff and could not find any difference to the new rolls. I now have an old roll out of the freezer since 2-3months that is transferred between the fridge and my backpack. Kind of a little
stress test to know how robust it is after it is no longer in deep freeze. Some say it will be a moving target then, but we will see.

Everything was fine with the old rolls that i shot. Maybe there are sensitometric changes, but who cares, we do not live in the 80s anymore where absolute color accuracy was needed. If it looks nice and like it should, then it
is fine.

I also had no wrapper offset with the Ilfords nor the Kodaks. (Kodak was 2011 or so and Ilford 2016)

dmtnkl · Feb 26, 2022

I just remembered a curious case i encountered a while back.

At some point around 3-4 years ago i shot a roll of Fuji Astia 100F expired in 2012. In general it looked perfect, unless i observed the deep black shadows where some green fog could be noticed. At the time i attributed the issue to the film's age. I put the good frames in mounts and didn't think too much about it.

Last summer i shot one more from the same set, but this time i developed it myself using Tetenal's 3 bath kit. It came out perfect, with deep black shadows and no noticeable color cast or any other form of degradation. If i look into Tetenal's troubleshooting section, it mentions "Max. densities green : contamination of the first developer with colour developer". In the meantime, the last two years i have shot and home-developed multiple expired E6 rolls with perfect results, so i am quite certain that first Astia was messed up by the lab.

On top of proper storage of expired film, it is equally important to either have a good development regimen at home, or a reliable lab whose results you can trust.

Sirius Glass · Feb 26, 2022

I have been freezing color film since 2005 and I have never had a problem including Kodak UltraColor 400, Kodak VividColor 160, and Velvia.

woodlandSerenade · Feb 26, 2022

Storage is key. I've had very good luck with mid 90's Velvia that had been stored frozen, yet some from the late 00's with an unknown storage history was garbage (heavy magenta cast, very low Dmax).
The worst by far was a sealed 50-sheet box of 8x10 EPP that expired in 2001. The sheets came out entirely clear. I have to imagine the box was set on a radiator it's entire life.

nickandre · Feb 26, 2022

I recently tested some Portra 160NC in 220 format expired 2010 which was cold stored. Film looked great to be honest, excited to put it to work.

As best I can tell, the slower the better and the less heat the better. It also depends upon how critical the work is because the base+fog density will increase over time. Digital workflows won't care as much as analog with limited contrast control.

Helge · Feb 26, 2022

E6 keeps amazingly well. My guess is that it has to do with the re-exposure stage, that also minimizes grain and ups speed (and locks speed and dynamic range too).
More people should shoot (fresh) E6. So many excellent reasons to.

Sirius Glass · Feb 26, 2022

When I worked at Kodak I was told that color film can be frozen for at least 20 years without problems and black & white film even longer. I never asked about freezing infrared film, however I have frozen black & white film longer than 10 years without a problem.

braxus · Feb 27, 2022

Color film shifts more then B&W. I find some slide films might have a magenta cast over time, but usually still quite usable. C41 films might be a little off as well. I freeze all the film I get, because I know a lot of it won't be used right away.

Agulliver · Feb 28, 2022

Freezing film slows down any chemical reactions and chemical breakdown. At room temperature, most of these films can sit on a shelf for 3-5 years and still be guaranteed to perform as per the data sheet. Frozen, you can multiply that by at least four....and in the case of B&W film you're going to be able to keep it frozen for decades. At which point cumulative damage by cosmic rays and background radiation become a consideration. A metal bodied freezer will offer some protection but not total.

That said, it should be little surprise to head that film of almost any type frozen for 10-20 years works as expected.

Helge · Feb 28, 2022

Makes you wonder how much faster film could be, if you could train the average consumer (and film retailer of course) to always freeze the film and shoot and develop within a few days.
Of course starting with big visible disclaimers on the package.

DREW WILEY · Mar 1, 2022

All depends. Sometimes outdated frozen color film works great at first; but if you don't use up the whole thawed batch in a reasonable amount of time, it might begin to drift distinctly faster than a newer batch would. I have a box of E100G Quickload 4X5 sleeves about 20 yrs old still in the freezer. If I ever decide to try it, I'll process a test shot before trusting the balance of sheets. But I sold all my boxes of 8X10 E6 sheet film to someone else well before any shift of frozen film would become a risk. Now I've got a fair amount of 8X10 Ektar color neg in the freezer, but am not worried about it. I don't have much choice - I wisely stockpiled it when it was about one fourth the current price!

But there was a time when I bought up a fair amount of out of date Fujichrome 8x10 sheet film (kept frozen all along). It did just fine as long as I fully shot any box I actually thawed within several months. Otherwise, there's some risk of highlight crossover or overall hue saturation anemia. Unexposed E6 films certainly don't last forever; but don't get too paranoid about the problem. High speed E6 versions did badly if out of date; but I can't think of any of those still in production.

Snowfire · May 23, 2022

Last summer I shot a roll of Ektachrome 200 that had been in the freezer since 1980. Color was pretty far off, especially the yellow layer, and grain was amplified, although I was able to scan and digitally correct a couple of frames from the roll to a semi-passable extent. More recent film from 2000-2010 has fared a bit better, albeit with some shifting.

The worst has been a B&W film, Ilford Delta 3200. After 8-10 years in the freezer it picked up so much base fog from cosmic rays as to be almost totally unusable.

faberryman · May 23, 2022

Photomultiplier said:
...we do not live in the 80s anymore where absolute color accuracy was needed.

Why was absolute color accuracy needed in the 1980s, but is not needed now?

Don_ih · May 23, 2022

faberryman said:
Why was absolute color accuracy needed in the 1980s, but is not needed now?

Colour can be digitally corrected, now - it could not in the 1980s.

Sirius Glass · May 23, 2022

I have not had color shifts or other problems for Kodak UltraColor 400 123 and 135 or Portra 400 or Tri-X 400 stored for over ten years in the freezer.

faberryman · May 23, 2022

Don Heisz said:
Colour can be digitally corrected, now - it could not in the 1980s.

Egad. Color correcting film digitally? Is nothing sacred? The fix it in post mantra is all pervasive.

nickandre · May 23, 2022

I did some tests for fridge/frozen color negative film:

160NC exp 2010, shot last month, ostensibly cold stored: had what appeared to be about a stop of speed loss. Some base discoloration.
160VC exp 2005, shot last month, ostensibly frozen: had more like 2 stops+ of speed loss but looked flat and discolored when exposed at EI 40. Probably can get away with something like EI 60 and loss of some shadow detail for best results.

I wanted 220 film to run through my studio so you're kinda stuck with old stuff nowadays save for the Shanghai shenanigans.

Don_ih · May 23, 2022

faberryman said:
Egad. Color correcting film digitally? Is nothing sacred? The fix it in post mantra is all pervasive.

It gets even better: the scanning software can do it automatically.

faberryman · May 23, 2022

Don Heisz said:
It gets even better: the scanning software can do it automatically.

I read that on the internet so it must be true.

mtjade2007 · May 23, 2022

DREW WILEY said:
All depends. Sometimes outdated frozen color film works great at first; but if you don't use up the whole thawed batch in a reasonable amount of time, it might begin to drift distinctly faster than a newer batch would.

It might or it will? This is something new and scary to me. I am using an old freezer and it has to be defrosted manually once a year or so. So my cold stored films got thawed to some extent once a year. Does this mean my films are probably ruined by now? Last year I shot a few rolls of the cold stored Fuji NPS and they came out perfect. They were all expired for 15 maybe close to 20 years ago. I still have quite some of it. Should I be worried about it now?

Sirius Glass · May 23, 2022

mtjade2007 said:
It might or it will? This is something new and scary to me. I am using an old freezer and it has to be defrosted manually once a year or so. So my cold stored films got thawed to some extent once a year. Does this mean my films are probably ruined by now? Last year I shot a few rolls of the cold stored Fuji NPS and they came out perfect. They were all expired for 15 maybe close to 20 years ago. I still have quite some of it. Should I be worried about it now?

That would only be a problem if during the defrosting the was taken out of the freezer and put in the oven at 400 degrees for several hours. Your film is okay.

mtjade2007 · May 24, 2022

That's great news. Thanks God. My film will be OK. PG&E here in California wants to shut off power from time to time when fire hazard condition exists in Summer. I guess I won't have a choice between getting the film ruined by a fire or by a power outage. Ha, ha.

Don_ih · May 24, 2022

faberryman said:
I read that on the internet so it must be true.

You can also read it in the software settings.

And Just How Stable is Color Film When Deep Frozen?

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