Ancient Tetenal Work RA-4, Agfacolor and Turacolor Color Paper: Still Useful?

[four-by-five]

Hello everyone,

I was given a whole bunch of old photographic paper by a friend of mine. Most is b/w and still working well, some papers show fogging, yellowing and dark yellow/brown marks. Most are pretty much perfect when lith printing and some hold up pretty well in regular processing, too.
However, among that lot were three rather big boxes of color paper, made by Tetenal, Agfa und Tura. The Agfa and Tura look truly ancient, the Tetenal not so much. IIRC, it's even sealed. It's safe to say that all that paper is at least 20 years old at this point and from what I can tell it was never stored in a freezer/fridge but rather at room temperature in a closet somewhere.

Truth be told, I've never done any color printing myself and I don't have many color negatives, mostly E6 slides. I'll be shooting some C-41 over the next few days so I figured I might as well try printing from that film once it's developed. Is it worth dropping some 30€ on Adox RA-4 chemistry to test out those papers? I own a color enlarger head and Jobo processor. I believe the best odds of getting passable results would be with the Tetenal paper but I think that it's more likely it's all cooked anyway, judging from my experience with similarly aged and stored color film.

What do you guys think? I could also get some Adox color mission paper to work with, of course.

 

[koraks]

Is it worth dropping some 30€ on Adox RA-4 chemistry to test out those papers?

Not really. The fresh Adox Color Mission is fresh and is evidently a great place to start, though.

 

[four-by-five]

Not really. The fresh Adox Color Mission is fresh and is evidently a great place to start, though.

Well, I thought so, too. I'm unsure whether buying both chemistry and paper is really worth it, though. When shooting color, I much prefer E6 (which itself has become stupidly expensive) over C-41, so there would be little throughput on my part. What is more, I would have to source the Adox RA-4 chemistry from a different seller than the Color Mission paper as Fotoimpex doesn't seem to have their own Adox chemistry in stock at the moment. That means: shipping times two. I'd be looking at an investment of ~60€.

Just out of curiosity, what would the expected aging effects of color paper be? Could it still be used for anything? I imagine fog and color shifts are to be expected.

 

[koraks]

Just out of curiosity, what would the expected aging effects of color paper be? Could it still be used for anything? I imagine fog and color shifts are to be expected.

Yes, that's correct. Usually you'll see the whites fogging; with Fuji paper it's mostly yellow/tan. The entire image also shifts to yellow. With mildly expired paper, you can correct a little for this and it doesn't really stand out unless you compare fresh and expired paper side by side. With paper as old as what you've got, it's generally so bad as to be inescapable.

 

[foc]

Can you supply a photo of the Agfa & Tura paper, please?

If the colour paper is old it may not be process RA4 but EP2 or (if very old, 1970s) then Agfa's proprietary colour print process, which are not compatible with RA4.

It should say the process on the box.

 

[four-by-five]

Can you supply a photo of the Agfa & Tura paper, please?

If the colour paper is old it may not be process RA4 but EP2 or (if very old, 1970s) then Agfa's proprietary colour print process, which are not compatible with RA4.

It should say the process on the box.

As for the Agfa, it's of the type MCN 310/5. Via this website, it appears that it was made from 1977 onward. The label states Process 87 or 90, differing from the picture on the web. So, most certainly not RA-4, the release date and process codes suggest that, at least.

What's a funny historic aside is that the Agfa postal address printed on the label has a four digit zip code but it says Made in Germany right below that. Rather atypical that it doesn't mention the West- or W.- prefix as I would've expected when there's a four digit zip code present. The zips of the BRD and DDR were merged only in 1993 (forming five digit zips), the reunion happened in 1990, which by itself would've dated the paper anywhere between 1990 and 1993. That threw me off at first!

The Turacolor is of the CN 17 M PE model. Its label notes the process as Ektaprint 3.
Unlike the Agfa paper's label, this one's claims to be Made in W. Germany, showing that along a four digit zip code. There's next to no information about Turacolor paper on the internet, it seems. The zip/origin text certainly helps us date it to before 1990.

So, to conclude, both papers are indeed not RA-4. I didn't think they would be but I didn't check the rather worn/torn labels so carefully before. Two questions arise:

1. What would happen if I were to toss the paper into RA-4 chemistry?
2. Is there anything those papers are still good for or should I just throw them out (does anybody want them?)

 

[four-by-five]

Yes, that's correct. Usually you'll see the whites fogging; with Fuji paper it's mostly yellow/tan. The entire image also shifts to yellow. With mildly expired paper, you can correct a little for this and it doesn't really stand out unless you compare fresh and expired paper side by side. With paper as old as what you've got, it's generally so bad as to be inescapable.

Thanks! That sounds like it would be at least worth trying, provided I buy the chemistry and new paper anyway

 

[koraks]

I know I would!

 

[Jan de Jong]

As for the Agfa, it's of the type MCN 310/5. Via this website, it appears that it was made from 1977 onward. The label states Process 87 or 90, differing from the picture on the web. So, most certainly not RA-4, the release date and process codes suggest that, at least.

What's a funny historic aside is that the Agfa postal address printed on the label has a four digit zip code but it says Made in Germany right below that. Rather atypical that it doesn't mention the West- or W.- prefix as I would've expected when there's a four digit zip code present. The zips of the BRD and DDR were merged only in 1993 (forming five digit zips), the reunion happened in 1990, which by itself would've dated the paper anywhere between 1990 and 1993. That threw me off at first!

The Turacolor is of the CN 17 M PE model. Its label notes the process as Ektaprint 3.
Unlike the Agfa paper's label, this one's claims to be Made in W. Germany, showing that along a four digit zip code. There's next to no information about Turacolor paper on the internet, it seems. The zip/origin text certainly helps us date it to before 1990.

So, to conclude, both papers are indeed not RA-4. I didn't think they would be but I didn't check the rather worn/torn labels so carefully before. Two questions arise:

1. What would happen if I were to toss the paper into RA-4 chemistry?
2. Is there anything those papers are still good for or should I just throw them out (does anybody want them?)

I had bought a while ago a lot with what seller called RA4 paper but it turned out to be EP2 from Labaphot -Labacolor. I can date it to about 1989 or there about. Yesterday and today i had a go with it. It is definitely ok for alt.processes but from what I have read EP2 will get bad on the dye for the yellows. Which I can confirm. I found it responds well to RA4 developer and I also made a direct reversal with it (photo-gram) all this stuff I exposed with an LED flood-light for a fraction of a second at 1.5 meters distance. The papers I have have still very equal development and the whites are a nice chamois.

Left "normal" development with RA4 developer
Right RA4 reversal, first development with Foma Retro320

a new unknown daylight process , using expired C41 developer, exposing with UV-flashlight first. But it does not handle that too well as the UV will almost instantly break-down the last bit of dye couplers.

So now I know, and did not expect that even 35 year old EP2 paper can be used. (sometimes)

Cheers
jan.

 

[four-by-five]

I had bought a while ago a lot with what seller called RA4 paper but it turned out to be EP2 from Labaphot -Labacolor. I can date it to about 1989 or there about. Yesterday and today i had a go with it. It is definitely ok for alt.processes but from what I have read EP2 will get bad on the dye for the yellows. Which I can confirm. I found it responds well to RA4 developer and I also made a direct reversal with it (photo-gram) all this stuff I exposed with an LED flood-light for a fraction of a second at 1.5 meters distance. The papers I have have still very equal development and the whites are a nice chamois.

View attachment 414122View attachment 414123
Left "normal" development with RA4 developer
Right RA4 reversal, first development with Foma Retro320

View attachment 414124
a new unknown daylight process , using expired C41 developer, exposing with UV-flashlight first. But it does not handle that too well as the UV will almost instantly break-down the last bit of dye couplers.

So now I know, and did not expect that even 35 year old EP2 paper can be used. (sometimes)

Cheers
jan.

Very interesting, thanks for sharing! And those are some lovely results you've gotten there, especially the last one!

I must admit I had totally forgotten I had even started this thread and was surprised when an eMail about it came to my inbox, lol.
I ended up giving all my old color papers away when I recently started "minimizing" my photo paper stash.

 

[Jan de Jong]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing! And those are some lovely results you've gotten there, especially the last one!

I must admit I had totally forgotten I had even started this thread and was surprised when an eMail about it came to my inbox, lol.
I ended up giving all my old color papers away when I recently started "minimizing" my photo paper stash.

thank you for your reply. I had the expired paper standing here for a long time before I was curious enough to play with it. So my conclusion the patient is still alive but not running the mile in full color any longer. For me that is fine for experimenting