Ancient pack film... how to develop?

[keenmaster486]

I have some Kodak Plus-X packfilm. It looks like it could be anytime from the 40's to the 60's, judging by the design of the font on the paper. There were two unexposed sheets before I took it out of the camera. I exposed them and pulled out the paper.

Now what? I want to try to develop this film, but how? I have a Patterson tank that I habitually use for 35mm and 120 developing. I have D-76 and fixer. Should I place them in a tank full of D-76 individually, and fix them in a tray? Also, I assume this is panchromatic film, and I can't open the pack under a darkroom safelight.

Plus, how long should I develop for? I was thinking maybe 15 minutes in D-76 for a start, but I really have no idea with film this old. I've heard you're supposed to half the ISO for every decade of age. Does this also change the developing times?

I'd really like to get some good images out of these.

 

[mshchem]

There are special pack film hangers. The Nikor sheet film tank is adjustable for all the different pack film types. I would develop 1 sheet at a time in a tray. You may have treasure.

I have Tri X pack film that I have had frozen since the 80's. I'm not an expert but I think you can remove 1 sheet at a time?

This stuff is why Beseler and others made a Negaflat type carrier, the stuff is flimsy, not like Estar base sheet film.

 

[removed account4]

Do you have paper processing trays ? and some DEKTOL ?
Mix some DEKTOL 1:6 @68ºF and put it in the trays ... take the film out of the pack in the darkness and put it in 1st a water bath and make sure they are separated; then in the DEKTOL. Shuffle the film as described in Ansel Adams "the negative" dragging the bottom sheet to the top bottom to the top bottom to the top over and over and over again for 6 minutes. THEN take all the film out in one big scoop and put it in a tray with WATER. Shuffle the film the same way a couple of times and then into a FIXER BATH again in a tray. Shuffle the film a couple of times, and then you can put the lights on and see how you did. Some people shuffle their film maybe 2 or 1 or 4 to a tray, just take it slow and be careful and you should do OK. Drag the film from the bottom of the stack from the center of the film with your fingertips broadside and be careful of the corners of each sheet, they might scratch your film. I suggest DEKTOL because it is fast and hard and will give you contrast and not too much fog; your film is OLD. Other developers might require more time and give you foggy film. A tray is all you need, no need for anything else. GOOD LUCK

 

[keenmaster486]

Hmm. I have cooking trays and pans that may work for this. But no Dektol. Only D-76.

I don't think I have the experience to develop the entire pack at once like that. I think I'd rather try that on something less essential before I try it on something like this.

Submerging them in water first to soften them does sound like a good idea. Perhaps I want to try that.

 

[removed account4]

Do you have any PRINT DEVELOPER ? I'd use that over D-76, D76 will give you foggy film.
Don't worry about experience, just develop 2 sheets at a time, and you will be done in no time, it just sounds difficult, its really a piece of cake.

 

[keenmaster486]

Well, I don't have any print developer, either. If I did I'd definitely take your suggestion.

Is there anything I can do to the D-76 to help me out?

 

[gordrob]

Your best bet is to develop one sheet to begin with so you have an idea of how the film is going to react to the developer you will be using. The film is actually 120 roll film you you know it will be flimsy in the tray. Tray development is best for one or two sheets. Take the film pack out of the film pack adapter and then in the dark open the film pack.You will be able to feel a metal flap (the light lock) on the end where the paper pulled out. Carefully pry the flap open and extract a sheet of film. Be very careful opening the film because it is all metal with very sharp edges. After you have removed a sheet of film re-close the pack carefully and place it in a light tight container until you try a second sheet. On 4x5 film take the film at one corner and peel the paper off the film. On 2x3 and 3x4 film packs the film is attached to the backing paper by thin paper tape.
Good luck
Gord

 

[keenmaster486]

This is a 3x4 inch film pack. It's frustrating because those numbers don't match up with any of the ones listed here: http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Film_Pack
The closest one is 518 (3 1/4 by 4 1/4). I assume the official numbers are overestimated by about a quarter of an inch. Either that or this is some kind of weird non-standard thing. Or the numbers refer to the size of the pack casing itself instead of the actual film window, in which case it's a 3 1/2 by 4 3/4 inch pack, or a 541.

Oh well. It doesn't matter... I took the film pack out of the holder. It seems that the very last image was not pulled all the way through. I found the paper that went with it and pulled it the rest of the way through. It must have ripped halfway originally. So at least that image will be half whited out.

I'm going to try to open the pack in darkness and develop the first sheet now. I have a couple of tupperware trays that are just the right size to hold some developer and fixer. My plan is to try to take out the first sheet in total darkness per gordrob's instructions, develop for 15 minutes, fix for 15 minutes and see what it looks like. Hopefully I'll have something I can work with.

 

[removed account4]

Do you have a metal tube to put film reels in ? If so, you can process the film doing "Taco Method"// Get an elastic band and bow the film and put the elastic band around it, so the emulsion side is on the INSIDE... Put your film in your film reel tube and close it, and put your developer in and roll the closed tube on your darkroom table to agitate it. You can probably search taco method on you tube to show you how to bow and elastic your film if my description is off. I'd worry about D76 but if that is all you have what can you do ? Its gonna be hit or miss. GOOD LUCK

 

[gordrob]

The film size 3x4 and 2x3 actually represent 3 1/4x4 1/4 and 2 1/4x3 1/4. The fractions are omitted just to make it quicker to write

 

[keenmaster486]

Well heeeeeeere you go ladies and gentlemen. Last night I finished developing the pack. I honed in on the right development time based on the frame edges... I ended up developing each sheet for close to the original recommended time in D-76.

When the dust settled I had 7 blank images and 4 non-blank ones, hopefully somewhat usable. I can make out buildings and foliage. (One of the images had stuck to the paper and pulled out of the pack when it was still in the camera, so there were 11 total in the pack)

I’m headed to the local darkroom in about 10 minutes to do some printing (I have a backlog of stuff...).

Until then, here’s a shot of the first-use instruction sheet I found inside the pack. Maybe we can figure out how old it is. I notice the last patent date is 1944; perhaps that helps.

 

[darkroommike]

There are special pack film hangers. The Nikor sheet film tank is adjustable for all the different pack film types. I would develop 1 sheet at a time in a tray. You may have treasure.

I have Tri X pack film that I have had frozen since the 80's. I'm not an expert but I think you can remove 1 sheet at a time?

This stuff is why Beseler and others made a Negaflat type carrier, the stuff is flimsy, not like Estar base sheet film.

You can "rob" the pack in the dark by removing the end cap and then pulling out the sheets that have moved to the back of the film pack, the ones where the paper has been torn off. You "should" use the curved Kodak hanger for film pack since the curve helps hold the thinner film in the hanger, but I have also trimmed off the end where the paper tab was glued to the film base with a guillotine paper cutter (in the dark) and then fit the film into regular hangers. I have also processed the film pack negatives in trays and that might be the easiest way. You shouldn't try to use a Yankee Daylight tank, a MOD 54. etc. but a Stearman SP-445 tank might work.