ancestors of plus-x?

pierods · Jul 8, 2008

What were the ancestors of Kodak's Plus-x (125 iso) in the 60's and 70's?

And what about its Ilford equivalent, FP4? It's always been FP4?

piero

jordanstarr · Jul 8, 2008

Tmax is pretty close...FP4 is also pretty close. Nothing beats plus-x though, don't give up 'cause you can still find it. I hear there are others, but these are the most readily available. If you're shooting 120 or larger, Tri-x is a little grainier, but pretty much the equivalent in 400iso and you can still blow it up pretty big.

pierods · Jul 8, 2008

jordanstarr said:
Tmax is pretty close...FP4 is also pretty close. Nothing beats plus-x though, don't give up 'cause you can still find it. I hear there are others, but these are the most readily available. If you're shooting 120 or larger, Tri-x is a little grainier, but pretty much the equivalent in 400iso and you can still blow it up pretty big.

Great!

But what was plus-x in the 60's and 70's?

Ole · Jul 8, 2008

Tmax is an entirely different technology, so forget about that.

I've used FP3, FP4, and the current FP4+.
I have a little box of Ilford HP3 plates, and remember shooting with HP4, HP5 and HP5+ too.

I can't remember what the Kodak films were, Ilford has always been my first choise.

2F/2F · Jul 8, 2008

Not sure about plus X, but Ilford keeps it pretty straightforward. HP and FP have both just added numbers as time goes on. I have some HP2 and HP3 sheets in my fridge right now!

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe HP is high-speed panchromatic, and FP is fine-grained panchromatic. I seem to remember that these first came out pre WWII. I don't know when Pan F was introduced.

As for Kodak, I just don't have the faintest idea off hand. I know their three equivalent films all ended with -X, but that's it (Pan-X, Plus-X, Tri-X). But if there is anything you want me to look up in a 1961 Photo Lab Index, let me know!

Murray Kelly · Jul 8, 2008

pierods said:
What were the ancestors of Kodak's Plus-x (125 iso) in the 60's and 70's?

And what about its Ilford equivalent, FP4? It's always been FP4?

piero

I remember using PlusX in the early 50's. The fast film was Super XX. Before TriX came along.

So the series went X, XX, XXX. No froth on top. There was Verichrome, but I didn't get into 35mm until '53 and I have this feeling there was no Verichrome (ortho) for 35mm. Maybe some one can enlighten me? Verichrome Pan came later.

There were a myriad of players in those days. Brand names long forgotten. They were all brought back when I re-read Crawleys paper from '61. He had them all nicely grouped for developing purposes.

Ilford's FP3 and was their mainstay and to compete with SuperXX they had HP3.

I became a fan of the fine grain stuff - PanatomicX, Pan F, and finally discovered Adox KB14 and KB17. Never did much with Perutz or Gevaert.

Not a lot of help, really but your OP was out by 10 years!

Cheers.
Murray

2F/2F · Jul 8, 2008

"I remember using PlusX in the early 50's. The fast film was Super XX. Before TriX came along."

Wasn't Tri-X around in the '40s as a sheet film? I thought the 1950s date of introduction was just a commonly-stated date that is simply when they made it available in 35mm rolls.

GeoffHill · Jul 8, 2008

I know you asked about Kodak products, but there is an interesting history of ilford products here

http://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Ilford/Chronology.html

sun of sand · Jul 8, 2008

probably plain panatomic and other "pan" films?

They had numerous other films ..as did everybody else as everybody had their hands in the photo business

df cardwell · Jul 8, 2008

Plus X and FP-3 have been around since WW2.

Ria · Jul 8, 2008

The "Kodak Reference Handbook" of 1945 (where do I get these things?) lists the following films:
Rolls & Packs-Verchrome
Plus-X

DWThomas · Jul 8, 2008

Yes indeed, I shot Plus-X and Tri-X in the late 50s and since. That was pre-ISO speed designations and think Plus-X was rated ASA 80. I imagine like Tri-X it's been through a few manufacturing-related revisions, but it still seems pretty much the way I remember it "back when." I've lately been playing with some Ilford and Fuji films to learn what's out there, but I still like Plus-X and the "old" Tri-X.

DaveT

Jim Noel · Jul 8, 2008

I started using sheet film in 1938. I also used 116 roll film at that time. PLus X was available then as was Super XX and Super Panchro Press which was Kodak's fast film. Panatomic X was the slow, very fine grained film. Verichrome was the popular film for snapshot cameras as the curve was balanced for skin tones. As I remember, when it was an orthochromatic film the speed was 50 Weston. It went to 100 when Verichrome Pan came out. I believe the ortho version was first manufactured prior to WWI.

Super XX superseded Super X both of which were used not only by a large number of press photographers, and others, but it had a straight line curve which made it ideal for use in making color separations. It was basically the only film used in one-shot cameras. This latter use is what enabled it to hang around as long as it did, and I still miss it as I am down to my last box of 100 in 4x5 (Frozen).

Super Panchro Press was the choice for new photogrpahers who did a lot of sports and night reporting.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Jul 8, 2008

Plus-X is the oldest active brand in the Kodak catalog; sadly, the Kodak timeline here does not indicate its inception date.

df cardwell · Jul 8, 2008

I leafed through my BJP Almanacs; Tri-X and Plus-X are mentioned in Kodak advs. in 1940.

dmr · Jul 8, 2008

My dad used to shoot Super-XX and Verichrome ortho when I was very young. He said that Plus-X and Verichrome Pan really were not the same, but I kind of remember them being the replacement products.

rusty71 · Jul 8, 2008

Tracing the evolution of Kodak brand names is difficult at best. Just look up "Ektar"; it can be a lens, or film! Kodak tends to set a brand name and keep it in place, even though the emulsion will go through many, many changes over the years. The Plus-X around today is very different from the Plus-X 10 years ago. But it has always been a professional medium speed B&W film with moderate to high contrast. Verichrome was the lower contrast "amateur" emulsion. Sadly it's gone, but few people used it anymore so it was a good move on Eastman's part.

I've been shooting a lot of the new reversal Cine Plus-X in Super 8 this summer. The old Cine Plus-X was ISO 50, the new stuff ISO 100, yet the grain is finer than the old stuff and simply stunning. I had to pinch myself to be sure I wasn't shooting 16mm!

After years of Kodak bashing, I have come around to the conclusion they are the finest manufacturers of emulsion in the world. Ilford is a close tie, and Fuji right up there. Film stocks have never been this good before. It's the best of times and the worst of times for analog photography.....

pierods · Jul 8, 2008

Some history there!

jd callow · Jul 8, 2008

rusty71 said:
After years of Kodak bashing, I have come around to the conclusion they are the finest manufacturers of emulsion in the world. Ilford is a close tie, and Fuji right up there. Film stocks have never been this good before. It's the best of times and the worst of times for analog photography.....

It sure is.

jim appleyard · Jul 8, 2008

rusty71 said:
Verichrome was the lower contrast "amateur" emulsion. Sadly it's gone, but few people used it anymore so it was a good move on Eastman's part.

QUOTE]

True, but it was a favorite with wedding pros because they could capture the detail in the white gown AND black tux.

IIRC, VP has two emulsion layers, one for each contrast level??? That's why it worked for weddings, etc.

df cardwell · Jul 8, 2008

Verichrome was the lower contrast "amateur" emulsion

I think it's better to describe it as 'linear', like today's TMY
(the 9 minute time is the standard).

Tom Hoskinson · Jul 8, 2008

pierods said:
What were the ancestors of Kodak's Plus-x (125 iso) in the 60's and 70's?

And what about its Ilford equivalent, FP4? It's always been FP4?

piero

Kodak Verichrome Pan is one ancestor and Kodak Super XX Pan could probably be considered to be another ancestor.

Murray Kelly · Jul 9, 2008

An interesting site, that Kodak one. It says

1954 - KODAK TRI-X Film, a high-speed black-and-white film, was introduced.

1956 - KODAK VERICHROME Pan Film was introduced, a black-and-white film that replaced the popular KODAK VERICHROME Film launched in 1931.

which sort of coincides with my memory of it. As stated - no mention of the PlusX unfortunately

Murray

John Shriver · Jul 9, 2008

Plus-X has been out there since the late 1930's.

Before it, there was Verichrome, Super Sensitive Pan, Super-X, and Panatomic.

They were replaced by Verichrome, Plus-X, Super-XX, and Panatomic-X.

Verichrome wasn't panchromatic, it was orthochromatic. Replaced by panchromatic Verichrome Pan in the mid 1950's. The others were always panchromatic. Verichrome Pan was designed for incredible shelf life and very wide exposure latitude.

Tri-X came out in sheet film in the 1940's. It replaced Super-XX as a roll film in the 1950's, but Super-XX sheet film lived on long after that. But, realistically, Super-XX sheet film was always a very different emulsion from the Super-XX roll and pack films, which aren't nearly as "straight line".

Murray Kelly · Jul 10, 2008

John Shriver said:
Tri-X came out in sheet film in the 1940's. It replaced Super-XX as a roll film in the 1950's, but Super-XX sheet film lived on long after that.

Better e-mail Kodak and get them to review their info about Tri-X.

quote:
1954 - KODAK TRI-X Film, a high-speed black-and-white film, was introduced.

- no mention of film formats.

Murray

ancestors of plus-x?

pierods

jordanstarr

pierods

Ole

Moderator

2F/2F

Murray Kelly

2F/2F

GeoffHill

sun of sand

df cardwell

Ria

DWThomas

Jim Noel

Michel Hardy-Vallée

Membership Council

df cardwell

dmr

rusty71

pierods

jd callow

Moderator

jim appleyard

df cardwell

Tom Hoskinson

Murray Kelly

John Shriver

Murray Kelly

ancestors of plus-x?

Moderator

Membership Council

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency