Especially since Kodak Portra 800 is not in stock in Rome's most recommended film store and was not in stock in Shanghai before I left.
Ask them what's going on and why can't they supply film.
Sometimes I want to fly out to Rochester, knock on the door and ask "OK, what is *really* going on?"
Sometimes I want to fly out to Rochester, knock on the door and ask "OK, what is *really* going on?"
Sometimes I want to fly out to Rochester, knock on the door and ask "OK, what is *really* going on?"
Dan, I respect you, but I have to point out that you just listed the ONLY-still-financially-successful film producers...
Now, you gave an opinion regarding what is meant by "Milking it", I will await a few others before continuing with an opinion on that...
Ratty, Sal, others, do you agree with Stone's definition above of Milking it?
Similar to my post, though I believe my version may have been too obscure. I do agree with PKM-25 that different companies will naturally have different methods and plans.Dan, I respect you, but I have to point out that you just listed the ONLY-still-financially-successful film producers...PKM-25 said:*snip*...
Again, nice try Ken, but you can not expect all companies to be just like ADOX, ILFORD and TIP, in terms of how they deal with product roadmaps and corporate web presence.... *snip*
Dan, I respect you, but I have to point out that you just listed the ONLY-still-financially-successful film producers...
In other words, you're saying not everyone can be successful and work to promote their business in the new market.
And then you deny that kodak is doing anything wrong, while acknowledging that these 3 companies are able to do it, and do it well enough that even you can acknowledge it.
andDevil's advocate, can someone please elaborate then what is meant by Kodak Alaris "Milking" film for as long as they can?
In the United States, "Milking it" is often used colloquially to suggest they are getting every drop out of it they can - past the point of being reasonable.Now, you gave an opinion regarding what is meant by "Milking it", I will await a few others before continuing with an opinion on that...
I think some of the resistance and dissatisfaction we are reading is because it seems KA has settled into the non-film side quite quickly - almost immediately. A lot of marketing can be perception of the company by potential customers. Besides, some people feel better if they can vent.PKM-25 said:Thanks Stone for your opinion, I can't say I agree with it and no, I am not going to cave or change my opinion, largely because I believe that KA is still trying to settle into what will hopefully be a very long term business prospect for them.
So Dan, unless you have insider information we don't, and TIP isn't lying, by reading only that one single status update from them you now know more about TIP's current situation going forward regarding their film production than you know about Kodak's situation? At least without directly flying to Rochester to ask?
Our friend Ratty worries "... Kodak Portra 800 is not in stock in Rome's most recommended film store and was not in stock in Shanghai before I left. Ask them what's going on and why can't they supply film."
Isn't that exactly the same question preemptively addressed by TIP's bulletin regarding their own current film supply problems? And presumably designed to short circuit exactly the sort of worries and uninformed "Kodak bashing" speculation that you claim is so destructive?
Why are we banging on Kodak yet again?
Why are we banging on Kodak yet again?
I used the phrase as it's commonly applied for all industries, not in any way specific to Kodak Alaris. "Milking" a product or product line is to keep selling it as long as one can without putting any resources into maintaining it. No real marketing. No repairs of production equipment if doing so would cost more than a trivial amount. No product improvement R&D. No R&D to deal with product component obsolescence or supplier loss. No expenditures to replace departing personnel who are key to maintaining production. No outlays to comply with any new environmental or other regulatory requirements. Leave the cow in its stall and keep squeezing those udders until no more milk comes out. Then send the cow to slaughter.Devil's advocate, can someone please elaborate then what is meant by Kodak Alaris "Milking" film for as long as they can?
You're setting a good example here... we should be out taking pictures instead of bickeringI have to keep it short, have a shoot to do in a moment.
Wow, that's a long shoot, have fun. (Unfortunately, I'm at work, typing this on a break, so I'm a bit jealous.)I am about to do my biggest shoot of the year, starts this afternoon and goes until July 4th
... Kodak fiim, or at least any Kodak-branded film I'd be interested in using, will disappear when Building 38 shuts down next year or soon thereafter.
After a long engineering career (in a non-photographic industry) dealing with the fallout from outsourcing, I'm a huge fan of vertical integration. Unfortunately, it's mostly history. Virtually all companies are now reliant on outside suppliers to greater or lesser degrees. The days of George Eastman raising his own cattle to ensure high quality gelatin are long gone....Any company reliant on another entity for it's continuation will always be bound by the other entities actions...
No, neither Eastman Kodak nor Kodak Alaris have been any more forthcoming on that subject than they have about other things. 2015 is when Eastman Kodak's large motion picture supply agreement reportedly ends; speculation is that volume will then fall too far to cover overhead of such a large coating line and it will follow the others to scrap dealers....Have they announced the closure of Building 38?...
Leave the cow in its stall and keep squeezing those udders until no more milk comes out. Then send the cow to slaughter.
In this case I don't expect it will be happy eating metallic dog food.
Ken's Dog
I used the phrase as it's commonly applied for all industries, not in any way specific to Kodak Alaris. "Milking" a product or product line is to keep selling it as long as one can without putting any resources into maintaining it. No real marketing. No repairs of production equipment if doing so would cost more than a trivial amount. No product improvement R&D. No R&D to deal with product component obsolescence or supplier loss. No expenditures to replace departing personnel who are key to maintaining production. No outlays to comply with any new environmental or other regulatory requirements. Leave the cow in its stall and keep squeezing those udders until no more milk comes out. Then send the cow to slaughter.
In Kodak Alaris' case, my perception, based on the Gabershagen and Mooney responses received, is that they'll keep selling still film as long as Eastman Kodak continues to produce it, customers continue paying the premium prices for it, and volume stays high enough. If any of those factors change, the communications have led me to perceive that Kodak Alaris will not make an attempt to coat its own still film. Even seeking another supplier to coat and finish film that Alaris would sell under its own brand seems unlikely, given the tone of its responses.
Kodak Alaris' communications cause me to conclude that Kodak fiim, or at least any Kodak-branded film I'd be interested in using, will disappear when Building 38 shuts down next year or soon thereafter. Kodak Alaris clearly telegraphs that it's a digital widget company with a future in digital widgets. It inherited the film cow and will milk it for cash while possible. If these things were not the case, Kodak Alaris could easily dispel those impressions without revealing any contractually or commercially proprietary information, but it hasn't. The tone of its responses creates and continuously reinforces them.
In this case I don't expect it will be happy eating metallic dog food.
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