An idea for Kodak....back to its roots...

[Ces1um]

Given the trendy interest in Film by a new generation, how about a Modern reboot of the 1888 camera. A preloaded box camera with 100 images. “You push the button we do the rest”......so after you shoot all the images, drop the camera in the mail back to Kodak. They develop the film, and email you back scans. Merit?

I always thought this would make a lot of sense for their new 8mm film/camera. Buy the film online and they bundle the cost of the film, film development, scanning and possibly shipping to return the developed film. That was when the camera was going to be sub $1000. Now that it's $3000+ that's probably not going to be a good business model because the target market is going to be so small. Are they still even going to release that camera? I haven't kept up with the news on it.

 

[jrhilton]

Even a cursory glance at YouTube will show the preponderance of millennials interested in analog photography, and local camera clubs, shows, and shops will confirm that.

I'm a millennial (just!), and honestly I don't see it at all - I wish I did! I would go as far as to say taking a photo with anything other than a phone is niche, and film is a small niche within that. As for my kids, zero interest in film like all their friends. They all use phones to take and share pictures. Disposable cameras - who uses them out side of parties, nights out and weddings - not seen someone on the street using one for at least a decade!

With regards to London being a center of film usage, I work here every day and hardly ever see anyone with a film camera. I think most tourists are using phones these days too.

I therefor don't think there is a market for Kodak doing this.

 

[AndyH]

I'm a millennial (just!), and honestly I don't see it at all - I wish I did! I would go as far as to say taking a photo with anything other than a phone is niche, and film is a small niche within that. As for my kids, zero interest in film like all their friends. They all use phones to take and share pictures. Disposable cameras - who uses them out side of parties, nights out and weddings - not seen someone on the street using one for at least a decade!

With regards to London being a center of film usage, I work here every day and hardly ever see anyone with a film camera. I think most tourists are using phones these days too.

I therefor don't think there is a market for Kodak doing this.

There may well be no market for the disposables, but it's worth exploring. Instax film is apparently doing very well, which is rather close to the same concept using inexpensive cameras.

I don't know about London, but in New England, I'd say that at least half of the folks I see toting around serious film gear qualify as millennials, and in the larger cities you see quite a few (or at least I do...). It will always be a photographic niche, and one that disposable cameras don't really fit into well, but a niche for manufacturers among twenty somethings is a lot more attractive a market than a niche among the Medicare generation (of which I am a part).

Andy

 

[AgX]

There may well be no market for the disposables, but it's worth exploring. Instax film is apparently doing very well, which is rather close to the same concept using inexpensive cameras.

Disposable cameras and Instax cameras differ in price at least by factor 10, both for camera and print.

 

[AndyH]

Disposable cameras and Instax cameras differ in price at least by factor 10, both for camera and print.

Of course. But an Instax camera and a high end film camera, even used, also have a significant gap. I'd suggest that the craze for Lomos and Dianas might be the best comparison of the next grade up from disposable.

Andy

 

[George Mann]

The price difference between a preloaded reusable and a single-use basic camera with flash should be negligable. That these stores not already offer such, means that they do not see a market for such.

Retailers these days sell what is available to them, which has little bearing on what may feasibly sell in the marketplace.

Furthermore, there would be a noticeable difference in the retail price between an instamatic (which costs more to produce), and a disposible.

Instamatic type cameras use to sell in the millions do to their popularity, and ease of use.

I believe that there may still be a strong niche demand for them when available.

 

[Chan Tran]

I have an idea which is not going back to Kodak's root. Kodak made some instant camera and film back in the 80's but was sued by Polaroid so they had to discontinue them. I don't know about the patent situation but I think if Kodak could make and improvement version of the Polachrome it would be great. I tried it back when Polaroid first introduced it and though it was a great thing. The quality was not there though so if Kodak can make something similar but with improved quality it would be cool.
The Instax from Fuji is good but prints too small. Large format instant print film would be very expensive and require expensive camera as well.

 

[AgX]

Retailers these days sell what is available to them, which has little bearing on what may feasibly sell in the marketplace.

International acting drugstore chains in the past had no problem getting house-branded films and single-use cameras.

A single, family-owned, non-photographic store of course would have to be approached.

 

[Agulliver]

With regards to London being a center of film usage, I work here every day and hardly ever see anyone with a film camera. I think most tourists are using phones these days too.

I therefor don't think there is a market for Kodak doing this.

Which areas of London do you work in or visit?

For a start you haven't seen me with my positively ancient film cameras around the City, Docklands and NW London

But I regularly see people using film cameras in London where there's interesting architecture or in the parks. When I did the Parkland Walk over Easter I saw two teenage boys with a NIkon film SLR. The kids I work with do use instax cameras as well as their phones, though I've not seen any using actual film.

Further afield the camera shop staff that I speak to wherever I travel all tell me that film sales were up this spring/summer, seriously up....as I've often mentioned Luton Camera Repairs (on the doorstep of London) ran out of Color Plus and Fuji 400H and still can't replace the stock because the distributor has sold out.....see Henning's notes about millions of rolls on backorder worldwide.

But it may well be geographical. AgX will tell you there's no film usage where they live.

 

[Team ADOX]

Interest among young ones is grossly overestimated at forums.

Well, it is just the other way round:
Interest in film among young photographers is very strong and mostly underestimated in forums, especially here on photrio with its older demographic. The younger generation is currently the main force of the film renaissance.
Our colleagues from Fotoimpex have a very good and close relationsship to the customer base. Both via the international shop and the 'brick-and-mortar' store in Berlin. About 80-90% of the customers in the store in Berlin are younger than 35 years.
The increase in film demand from (very) young users is really impressive. And this experience is made by all manufacturers.
That is also one of the reasons why film manufacturers are looking with confidence to the future.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.

 

[Team ADOX]

B&W film will never go away, color might though.

Relax and be happy: Also color film will never go away .
The color film market is much bigger than the BW film market. Depending on the regional market, color film has markets shares in the 75 - 90% range. And it is currently increasing its market share even more, because the current growth rates in color film surpass the growth rates in BW film. So both are increasing, but color meanwhile stronger than BW.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.

 

[Cholentpot]

Relax and be happy: Also color film will never go away .
The color film market is much bigger than the BW film market. Depending on the regional market, color film has markets shares in the 75 - 90% range. And it is currently increasing its market share even more, because the current growth rates in color film surpass the growth rates in BW film. So both are increasing, but color meanwhile stronger than BW.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.

I mean yes, this makes sense and sounds nice for 2019. What about in 2119? Color film is one of the most complex chemistry every devised. B&W with a little know how can be done in a kitchen sink.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Well, it is just the other way round:
Interest in film among young photographers is very strong and mostly underestimated in forums, especially here on photrio with its older demographic. The younger generation is currently the main force of the film renaissance.
Our colleagues from Fotoimpex have a very good and close relationsship to the customer base. Both via the international shop and the 'brick-and-mortar' store in Berlin. About 80-90% of the customers in the store in Berlin are younger than 35 years.
The increase in film demand from (very) young users is really impressive. And this experience is made by all manufacturers.
That is also one of the reasons why film manufacturers are looking with confidence to the future.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.

Must be very different from what I see here. Even if all young ones are just like me, buying film on-line and develop at home... I just can't see as many of people with film cameras as I see with digital. Perhaps it is all taken inside. On private parties and elsewhere, inside. Not on public. I walk in Toronto from Monday to Friday and film cameras are next to none on the streets. Yet, I see with digital ones regularly and with young ones.

 

[abruzzi]

Where I live, its rare to see anyone with a film camera, but all of those I do see are are under 40. (I'm 47, so I seem to be the exception.)

 

[Prest_400]

Of course regional and local factors are in play. Berlin is a lively European capital with quite an interesting social scene, I'd love to get down there and pass by Fotoimpex for some film goodies.

I live now in a university town and see more film cameras thatn I expected. Last saturday at a dinner there was a girl with a Konica BM, and coming back at 2AM I saw someone carrying a M42 SLR with flash. Not scientific, but the local camera club I am in has noted more people being interested in film.

A large difference in perceptions between genrations is that there is tech/screen fatigue and film allows a different experience and look which people actually seek. Phones are giving increasingly better results and enough for snaps.

 

[Team ADOX]

Must be very different from what I see here.

Not only our US partners, but also our Canadian partners/customers see increasing film demand. In Toronto Downtown Camera recently invested quite massively in increasing their lab capacity because of increasing demand:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/bus...lm-photography-darkrooms-see-a-bright-future/

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.