An Accidental Entry Into LF

Roger Cole · May 21, 2012

mwdake said:
Surely not.
I think the ground glass on a 4x5 would be around the size the OP quoted.
My Graphic Super is about that size.

Sounds right. I can't imagine the ground glass being 1/2" oversized. More like slightly undersized for 4x5.

summicron1 · May 21, 2012

tryals15 said:
Turns out the film holder I have is for film packs -- evidently not what I needed...

you can safely put that into the metal recycling bin. No film packs made any more.

film holders such as have been discussed are readily available. don't get confused by differences between "graflex" and "graphic" backs -- all 4 by 5 film holders sold today are for your camera unless someone specifically says they are for a "graflex" camera, but those are all more collectibles.

ct

smieglitz · May 22, 2012

summicron1 said:
you can safely put that into the metal recycling bin. No film packs made any more.

Nooooo. Trade that thing to me for a film holder. The FPAs make great wetplate holders. And I use the metal from any old film packs to adjust the focal plane for the glass plates.

BTW, the 1234 film pack adapter is for 4x5 so if it fits your camera back, you have a 4x5 camera.

Steve Smith · May 22, 2012

mwdake said:
Surely not.
I think the ground glass on a 4x5 would be around the size the OP quoted.
My Graphic Super is about that size.

Agreed. The image area on a film is smaller than the actual film size. Actually, the film itself is smaller than it claims to be as it's specified in the size a glass plate would be but as originally film was put into metal holders (septums) to allow it to fit in glass plate holders, the film will be slightly smaller.

The measured size of 4.75 x 3.75 sounds just right for 5x4.

Steve.

tryals15 · May 22, 2012

Steve Smith said:
Agreed. The image area on a film is smaller than the actual film size. Actually, the film itself is smaller than it claims to be as it's specified in the size a glass plate would be but as originally film was put into metal holders (septums) to allow it to fit in glass plate holders, the film will be slightly smaller.

The measured size of 4.75 x 3.75 sounds just right for 5x4.

Steve.

I like this conclusion better...

tryals15 · May 22, 2012

smieglitz said:
Nooooo. Trade that thing to me for a film holder. The FPAs make great wetplate holders. And I use the metal from any old film packs to adjust the focal plane for the glass plates.

BTW, the 1234 film pack adapter is for 4x5 so if it fits your camera back, you have a 4x5 camera.

We might be able to work something out... I have been reading about wet plate lately and, while I don't think I'll ever take the leap, I think it looks like a fascinating process!

mark · May 22, 2012

That will turn out to be the most expensive 3 dollar purchase you ever made. This crap is addictive, and bigger drugs and processes are just around the corner. Pretty soon you will be whoring yourself to support a 20x24 10 sheet a day habit. Quit now.

Roger Cole · May 22, 2012

mark said:
That will turn out to be the most expensive 3 dollar purchase you ever made. This crap is addictive, and bigger drugs and processes are just around the corner. Pretty soon you will be whoring yourself to support a 20x24 10 sheet a day habit. Quit now.

True the first part (most expensive three dollars..) not necessarily true the rest. I'm still pretty happy with 4x5, mainly because I have two 4x5 enlargers and don't want to limit myself to contact prints. Now if I ever stumble on a deal close enough to take advantage of on an 8x10 enlarger... but I could resist buying that and the camera and the lenses and the film holders, really I could, I could quit any time I wanted...

tryals15 · May 22, 2012

lol. Just read these to my wife. She laughed... Kind of.. I think...

E. von Hoegh · May 22, 2012

mark said:
That will turn out to be the most expensive 3 dollar purchase you ever made. This crap is addictive, and bigger drugs and processes are just around the corner. Pretty soon you will be whoring yourself to support a 20x24 10 sheet a day habit. Quit now.

What the OP needs to do is acquire a very expensive drug addiction. Then, he gets off the drugs and uses the camera gear he will be able to buy (with the money he's not spending on South American toads) as therapy. Everyone's happy.

Roger Cole · May 22, 2012

Large format photography is way more bad ass than drugs. Just sayin'.

E. von Hoegh · May 22, 2012

Roger Cole said:
Large format photography is way more bad ass than drugs. Just sayin'.

You've never done really good drugs, then.

tryals15 · May 24, 2012

I feel as though we may have wandered into the weeds here...

Back to the subject at hand.

It seems that both back braces for the rails of one of these cameras are broken. I've looked here and online, and unless I missed it I can't seem to find any information on possible replacements (Except to say replacement parts are scarce...). I also am curious how to get around the baffles to unscrew the mounting screws... Ideas?

tessar · May 24, 2012

Hi tryals15, just FYI: Your Speed is pre-1955 (side rangefinder); the Crown is post-1955 (top rangefinder). I was mystified by the 3 types of Graflex and Graphic backs till I found this good explanation, complete with illustrations:
http://lommen9.home.xs4all.nl/holders/index.html
Your Crown definitely has the Graflok back which looks to be in good complete shape, so I assume it's the Speed that has the broken rail braces. You didn't include a picture of the back on the Speed, so I can't tell if it has the Graphic, or spring, back (pre-1951) or the Graflok back (post-1951). Probably the Graflok back, since the spring back doesn't have what I'd call rail braces.
I've been using Graphic press and Graflex SLR cameras for years and really like them. The people on the Graflex site were happy to help me out when I started. I recommend a visit:
http://www.graflex.org/
One member, 45pss, is a technical expert and has contributed more than 1000 posts. I'm sure he could give you some advice re those broken braces.

tryals15 · May 24, 2012

tessar said:
Hi tryals15, just FYI: Your Speed is pre-1955 (side rangefinder); the Crown is post-1955 (top rangefinder). I was mystified by the 3 types of Graflex and Graphic backs till I found this good explanation, complete with illustrations:
http://lommen9.home.xs4all.nl/holders/index.html
Your Crown definitely has the Graflok back which looks to be in good complete shape, so I assume it's the Speed that has the broken rail braces. You didn't include a picture of the back on the Speed, so I can't tell if it has the Graphic, or spring, back (pre-1951) or the Graflok back (post-1951). Probably the Graflok back, since the spring back doesn't have what I'd call rail braces.
I've been using Graphic press and Graflex SLR cameras for years and really like them. The people on the Graflex site were happy to help me out when I started. I recommend a visit:
http://www.graflex.org/
One member, 45pss, is a technical expert and has contributed more than 1000 posts. I'm sure he could give you some advice re those broken braces.

Wow, that first site is great. I definitely have the Graflok back (same on both). The rails I was talking about are the bellow rails. There is about a 2 inch section of rail all the way in the back that has a metal guide holding it down, the braces are in good shape on one camera, but they are all busted up on the other. Does that make sense? I didn't realize there was a forum on graflex.org; I'm headed there now.

E. von Hoegh · May 25, 2012

tryals15 said:
I feel as though we may have wandered into the weeds here...

Back to the subject at hand.

Hardly. Some threads morph through three or four different subjects.

tryals15 · May 25, 2012

LOL. Fair enough.

E. von Hoegh said:
Hardly. Some threads morph through three or four different subjects.

E. von Hoegh · May 25, 2012

tryals15 said:
LOL. Fair enough.

If you think this place is bad, go visit LFPF. They're a bunch of opinionated eclectic eccentric characters, some threads go on for pages while off topic. I think the mods have given up.

Old-N-Feeble · May 25, 2012

Not quite true about LFPI. I've been spanked a couple of times there... deservedly, I'll add. And... APUG members complaining about opinionated folks? Huh?

Roger Cole · May 25, 2012

E. von Hoegh said:
If you think this place is bad, go visit LFPF. They're a bunch of opinionated eclectic eccentric characters, some threads go on for pages while off topic. I think the mods have given up.

It, and this, are two of the most on-topic forums I visit of several, almost stultifying so to me at times. A matter of taste I guess.

And yes, THIS part of this post and the next sentence are OT.

One of my favorite private pilot forums is a place where thread creep, more like thread warp drive, is all but encouraged as an art form. I find it frankly liberating.

Back to topic: LFPF is mostly pretty on topic and a really good place for those interested in LF.

k_jupiter · May 25, 2012

Amazed at the misinformed advice you got here.

It is of course a Pacemaker 4x5 Speed. The back is a Grafloc, makes little difference unless you get a roll film holder or Graphmatic multiple film back.

Get some nice plastic film holders, Fidelity, whatever. They are all pretty much the same. Check the darkslides for cracks, edges for light leaks. Clean them well, blow them out well. Pull the back off, clean the focus screen, don't get the fresnel lens put back in wrong.
Clean the lens carefully, do a time test on the shutter. Keep your eyes peeled for a reasonable 150mm modern lens, but don't get rid of the original lens/shutter setup.

Have fun, spend money.

tim in san jose

k_jupiter · May 25, 2012

Amazed at some of the misinformed advice you got here.

It is of course a Pacemaker 4x5 Speed. The if the back is the same as the Crown, it is a Grafloc, makes little difference unless you get a roll film holder or Graphmatic multiple film back. The Crown looks nice also.

Get some nice plastic film holders, Fidelity, whatever. They are all pretty much the same. Check the darkslides for cracks, edges for light leaks. Clean them well, blow them out well. Pull the back off, clean the focus screen, don't get the fresnel lens put back in wrong.
Clean the lens carefully, do a time test on the shutter. Keep your eyes peeled for a reasonable 150mm modern lens, but don't get rid of the original lens/shutter setup. Get a good loupe, focus on the groundglass.

Have fun, spend money.

tim in san jose

smieglitz · May 30, 2012

Can you post a pic of the broken parts? I cannibalized a 4x5 Graphic camera years ago and might have what you need.

tryals15 · May 30, 2012

I'm not with the camera right now, but using pictures already up here... It's the 1.5-2" brace that holds the back rail down (on both sides). The little lip that actually does the holding down has been sheared off.

Ian Grant · May 30, 2012

You mean these bits

I bought two spares from an online seller and repaired mine, there a couple of people in the US who strip down Pacemaker Graphics for sp[are parts which they post on their own webites or Ebay. One was Canyonland Graphics (lakesgraphic on ebay) and the other just has a website but I can't think of his name off-hand.

Luckily I didn't need to many parts to rebuild two totally written off Speed Graphics but they are getting much more expensive now, so good luck

Ian

An Accidental Entry Into LF

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