Ammonium Thiosulfate floating debris

[lensmagic]

Alert Bud and arrange to send him a sample.

PE

Will do. Thanks, PE.

 

[Formulary/Bud Wilson]

Ammonium Thiosulfate powder

Lensmagic;

I have been watching this thread and Monday we dissolved some of this powder and found no problem. Again this morning I had one of our tech's dissolve 60 grams of 10-0201 ammonium Thiosulfate Powder into 100 ml
H2O. This product goes immediately into solution and I have the 100 ml bottle sitting here on my desk.
I reread your original posts and don't see what %solution you have been trying to make?? Please advise. The Liquid Ammonium Thiosulfate that we are are familiar with is a 60% solution. 60 grams to 100ml +-. ( not wanting to start a discussion on percentage solutions please))!!
Would you please take part of what you are working with and dilute it 1 to 3 to get a working rapid fix solution. Then take an end of a piece of exposed film. 35mm film end is good, and do a clearing test in the working solution.
Then let us know what the clearing time is for the test film.
Also by diluting to a working solution the residue should go away.
If it clears in a minute or so +- you have Ammonium Thiosulfate powder.
If it doesn't clear, you have an unknown compound that you are working with.
Please let us know either by phoning 800-922-5255, or thru this thread or email @ formulary@blackfoot.net.
If you don't have Ammonium Thio powder we will immediately replace with rite material.
Thanxs and let us know ASAP
Bud

 

[lensmagic]

It gets worser and worser. Three weeks ago I sent PF a detailed email describing my experience with this batch of PF ammonium thiosulfite. Despite two follow up phone calls (one in which I placed an order), I have received no response from PF.
I have been working my way through the ammonium thiosulfite, processing films and papers. The chemical still does its job (fixes), still produces the floating debris described and depicted in my original posting. Yesterday I "unearthed" some black stuff in the bucket of ammonium thiosulfite (please see attached photo). I thought: This can't be good.
My purpose in making this post is not to bash PF. I have been their customer for decades. But if anyone has a suggestion on how I might best proceed, I would appreciate hearing from you.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Did you send them a sample?

PE

 

[lensmagic]

No, I did not send a sample. I called PF and asked them what to do, and I was instructed to send an email describing what problems I was having with the product.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I suggest that you write and tell them the problem is not solved and ask to send a sample. Ammonium Thiosulfate solid is known to be sensitive to excess heat, and if it were to have been overheated during shipping it could have sulfurized. That is the technical term for this type of problem. The byproducts include what you see, an odor of rotten eggs, and sometimes black deposits due to interaction with other items present, such as metal cans or plastics.

You can generate this effect in the lab by taking pure, clear ammonium hypo solution and adding concentrated sulfuric acid to it. An off-white scum forms instantly along with this odor. The odor is optional depending on the degree and rate of decomposition, since the gas is volatile. A slow decomposition will allow the odor to dissipate from the solid.

PE

 

[lensmagic]

I suggest that you write and tell them the problem is not solved and ask to send a sample. Ammonium Thiosulfate solid is known to be sensitive to excess heat, and if it were to have been overheated during shipping it could have sulfurized. That is the technical term for this type of problem. The byproducts include what you see, an odor of rotten eggs, and sometimes black deposits due to interaction with other items present, such as metal cans or plastics.

You can generate this effect in the lab by taking pure, clear ammonium hypo solution and adding concentrated sulfuric acid to it. An off-white scum forms instantly along with this odor. The odor is optional depending on the degree and rate of decomposition, since the gas is volatile. A slow decomposition will allow the odor to dissipate from the solid.

PE

Yes, there is an odor of rotten eggs. I balk at writing PF, hat in hand, begging them to allow me to send them a sample. But since I asked for suggestions, and since I respect you and your advice, I will write PF. Thank you for your suggestion.

 

[Photo Engineer]

LM;

Bud is a very open and approachable person and so is Sherry who probably took your order. They will bend over backwards to help you. I know, as I have seen their efforts to satisfy the very few complaints they do get. You have gotten to them in the midst of their workshop season and this does slow down responses.

However, you are not going to them hat in hand. You are a customer who paid for a product, and Bud is a customer who paid for shipping it to you and paid for good, pure product. Somewhere, something may have gone awry and neither of you should feel bad. This happens. People want ammonium thiosulfate powder, and it is a difficult material to make pure, to ship and to store. This is why the bulk of this chemical world wide is a 60% solution instead of the powder.

This fact is unfortunate as it adds to the cost to ship water, but it reduces problems. I have 3 gallon jugs of the 60% here that are up to 3 years old and are still good. The powder would last that long, at least, but the liquid concentrate will keep on going, I am sure. Ask them and do not feel bad.

PE

 

[lensmagic]

Photographers Formulary has graciously refunded the purchase price of the powder ammonium thiosulfate.

 

[OldBikerPete]

You can probably filter the residue out. Use a paint filter or better. Notify the Formulary. Bud has strict quality criteria!

PE

You can also use coffee filters from the supermarket.