All my papers are suddenly fogged?!

[cirwin2010]

Obviously my testing methodology isn't perfect. I didn't use the same type of developer for example. I have some liquidol arriving in the mail sometime this week which I might play around with.

 

[khh]

Maybe someone can chime in on how longer paper is good for, especially papers like Fomatone and Retrobrom.

I've kept Fomatone paper around for years without seeing any ill effects, using Ilford Multigrade developer. I can't give an upper bound as I first discovered the Foma papers in 2020, and sheets from the first batch I bought still works well.

 

[koraks]

coin on it to be exposed by the safelights for 5 minutes. If the shadow from the coin appeared then the safelights were exposing the paper

That doesn't tell the full story - but for otherwise unexposed paper strips tested for fog it's an adequate test. It doesn't tell you, however, if your safelight really is safe for 5 minutes. There can still be contrast influences.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Tried making a print today using Fomatone 131 paper and noticed it was coming out yellow. I tested the paper by developing an unexposed strip in liquidol for 2.5 minutes and fixing out an unexposed strip for comparison. The developed strip came out yellow. I repeated the test in complete darkness to rule out a safelight issue and got the same result

Thinking it was a chemistry issues, I mixed up some fresh developer, stop, and fix. Also scrubbed my trays for good measure. Tested again and got the same problem.

Now thinking it was a paper issue I tried a paper I used a few weeks ago. That one turned a light gray from fog. I then did subsequent tests with other papers that I used recently. Same issues there too!

Now wondering if I have an issue with my bottle of developer I used some rodinal as a makeshift paper developer. That also returned issues from some papers. The effect was diminished but still present in some.

I feel like I'm going crazy! I don't know what is going on. My papers are kept in the original packaging and nothing has disturbed them over the last few weeks. I don't think I have fog from hydrogen sulfide (sepia toning) since a) never had been an issue before b) the plastic in the packaging is air tight when closed.

The fogging is even across the paper and does not show splotches or gradients.

I'm not aware of any possible sources of radiation. My darkroom temperature is warm, but not hot. Nothing new has been introduced to my process. Some of my papers and chemistry are a bit old, but had no issue 2 weeks ago.

I've ordered some fresh Fomatone paper, developer, and fixer to try to rule out the issue. I really hope it's not the paper since that would be a huge loss. I'm going to loose sleep over this mystery.

It's a good idea to get fresh paper and do your test again. I understand the concern and will keep my fingers crossed.

 

[MattKing]

A proper safelight test is done with lightly flashed paper - both pre-flash, and post-flash. That way, you can tell if the safelight affects the paper.
The really boring to perform Kodak Safelight Test will do this for you, and can be found here: https://www.kodak.com/content/products-brochures/Film/KODAK-A-Guide-to-Darkroom-Illumination-K-4.pdf

 

[Doremus Scudder]

cirwin2010,

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I had similar problems with Liquidol. I do not believe that it is fogging, but rather staining. Fresh stop bath and a water rinse before the fix helps with this somewhat. Using fresh fix helps a lot too; the staining seems to be worse in older fixer.

The staining seems to be caused by carried-over developer reacting with the fixer somehow. I'm not sure of the exact mechanism.

At any rate, I found that other print developers did not have this problem, so just let Liquidol go. It was more trouble than it was worth. I like the results I get with ID-62 better anyway.

Best,

Doremus

 

[DeletedAcct1]

I did some testing and I've come to a conclusion. The short answer is it's the developer. But... it seems to be a bit more complicated than that.

The test: I mixed up some more Liquidol from my old bottle (purchased and opened 1.5 years ago) and poured it into a tray. In another tray I poured some brand new Ilford Multigrade developer (what I could get my hands on soonest). I then set up a tray of stop bath and fixer per usual.

I proceeded to cut small strips of various papers and put one into the old Liquidol bath, one into the Ilford Multigrade bath, and one straight into the fix as a reference point. The strips were developed for 3 minutes each.


Observations: As per my previous testing, all the papers showed fog when processed in the Liquidol. Some showed more than others, especially the oldest papers I had (I'll come back to this). The strips processed in the new Ilford Multigrade developer showed only the slightest amount of density over the fixed only strips. I assume this slight amount of density is the base fog of the emulsion. You really have to be looking in bright light to kinda see the difference. There were some exceptions. Some long expired paper fogged in both developers, but the Liquidol showed notably more fog in these cases. Some Foma Retrobrom paper I bought about 1.5 years ago also showed some fog even in the new developer. Either this papers expires early or I'm over developing it for this test.

There was also one other exception to the general observation. The brand new Ilford Multigrade Classic Fiber paper I bought today did NOT show any fog when processed in the Liquidol. It looked exactly the same in both developers. I had some older Ilford Multigrade Classic Fiber paper I bought a while back and that showed some fog in the Liquidol.

Conclusion?: I'm not sure exactly what happened to my Liquodol stock, but this appears to be a compound issue. The old Liquidol developer used with older paper (1.5-3 years old), especially warmtone paper. Maybe some of the anti fogging agents in the stock suddenly went bad or there was some sort of contamination? Regardless, my takeaway is that I need to stop building up a supply a materials if I cannot get through them quickly enought. I don't have a freezer for my paper. I'll also start taking some precautions to protect undeveloped paper from the environment. Maybe store the boxed in an airtight bin or at least switch over to a thiourea sepia toner.

Maybe someone can chime in on how longer paper is good for, especially papers like Fomatone and Retrobrom.

Consider that many paper emulsions have developers embedded in them. Maybe those different developers react differently with liquidol and multigrade liquid developers...
Maybe some papers have alittle bit of restrainers in them, who knows...

 

[Peter Schrager]

I've been using foma papers for many years now
Do yourself a favor and buy a small refrigerator to keep your paper in. I make my own developer and fixer from bulk chemicals
Simple to make up and always fresh...I discard after use. Why people insist on paying to ship water I'll never understand. Plus it's way cheaper

 

[Doremus Scudder]

... Why people insist on paying to ship water I'll never understand. Plus it's way cheaper

Agreed for the most part. The only reasons I can think of are: buying pre-mixed toxic developers (e.g., PMK) or toners/stop baths because you don't want to handle the more dangerous chemicals yourself when mixing and buying rapid fixer concentrates (since getting ammonium thiosulfate in dry form is difficult and it doesn't like to keep well that way or other difficult-to-formulate things just for the convenience.

I get a few things shipped in liquid form, Kodak Indicator Stop (just for the convenience) and Rapid Selenium Toner as well as rapid fixer concentrates. I used to get HC-110. That and Rodinal are probably still good to get in liquid form.

Best,

Doremus