Alec Soth

[warden]

He had a good time making his new book.

‘I’m making fun of my midlife crisis!’ The great photographer Alec Soth on ‘having a blast’ back at art school

He is famed for capturing Niagara Falls newlyweds and cabin-dwelling survivalists. But when Soth hit middle-age, he set off on a two-year odyssey to tap into ‘the bubbling enthusiasm’ of art students across the US

www.theguardian.com

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Read that this morning. It's probably one of the strangest photobooks ever made. I doubt it'll ever be part of my collection, even though I'm an Alec Soth fan, but I do admire his risk taking. Does show that in photography everything is possible.

 

[warden]

Read that this morning. It's probably one of the strangest photobooks ever made. I doubt it'll ever be part of my collection, even though I'm an Alec Soth fan, but I do admire his risk taking. Does show that in photography everything is possible.

Yeah it sounds like a phase. It’ll pass.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Yeah it sounds like a phase. It’ll pass.

Yeah, he could've bought a Corvette, like we all do.

 

[albireo]

Read that this morning. It's probably one of the strangest photobooks ever made. I doubt it'll ever be part of my collection, even though I'm an Alec Soth fan

What do you like about his work? I skimmed through one of his books (Sleeping by the Mississippi I think it was called) in a local photo book shop and found nothing that appealed to me.

Perhaps it's because the world he moves in and the characters he's interested in are completely alien to me and my culture.

But then again I am fascinated by e.g. Eggleston and Robert Adams who are also depicting places and ways of being that are really remote to me, so the above is probably not the reason why I haven't been able to appreciate Soth's output.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

What do you like about his work? I skimmed through one of his books (Sleeping by the Mississippi I think it was called) in a local photo book shop and found nothing that appealed to me.

Perhaps it's because the world he moves in and the characters he's interested in are completely alien to me and my culture.

But then again I am fascinated by e.g. Eggleston and Robert Adams who are also depicting places and ways of being that are really remote to me, so the above is probably not the reason why I haven't been able to appreciate Soth's output.

Interesting that you mention Eggleston. I find similarities between him and Soth. The approach of Sleeping by the Mississippi is not that far from Eggleston's Election Eve or his Guide, this last one having many photographs from Mississippi. Put Eggleston's Guide next to Soth's Sleeping by the Mississippi and you'll see the lineage.

They are both interested in the landscape and it's relation with history, both are attracted by the vernacular, and both engage with the people they meet in a similar matter, i.e., as if they were one of many elements—with the cars, the roads, the rivers, the houses, the city scape, various objects, etc.—that is part of the landscape that, as a whole, defines community in general. You don't get a full sense of who they are, but you do get a strong sense of their belonging where they are, and thus a feeling of what that place is about. Difference might just be that Soth engages with them at times on a more intimate level than Eggleston does.

Biggest difference, to me, is in the format. Can't quite put my finger on it, but there is something that makes the frame of Eggleston's 35mm act very differently than Soth's 8x10.

This is a photograph of William Eggleston by Alec Soth:

 

[Alex Benjamin]

@albireo You should take a look at this

 

[albireo]

Interesting that you mention Eggleston. I find similarities between him and Soth. The approach of Sleeping by the Mississippi is not that far from Eggleston's Election Eve or his Guide, this last one having many photographs from Mississippi. Put Eggleston's Guide next to Soth's Sleeping by the Mississippi and you'll see the lineage.

They are both interested in the landscape and it's relation with history, both are attracted by the vernacular, and both engage with the people they meet in a similar matter, i.e., as if they were one of many elements—with the cars, the roads, the rivers, the houses, the city scape, various objects, etc.—that is part of the landscape that, as a whole, defines community in general. You don't get a full sense of who they are, but you do get a strong sense of their belonging where they are, and thus a feeling of what that place is about. Difference might just be that Soth engages with them at times on a more intimate level than Eggleston does.

Many good points, thanks. I'm struggling to understand why I didn't like what I saw. Could it be that I felt that Soth was pushing that Eggleston language to the realm of mannerism? I probably felt this. I was acutely aware of Soth going about with his large camera on his shoulder and a well laid out plan on how to get those images and place those people in that order in his images.

Whereas I never felt I detected that looking at Eggleston's images. To me they always felt like the product of a furious instant of intuition and effortless creativity.

But again, it comes from a cursory look at his book - I will go through the documentary you posted - thanks!

 

[Alex Benjamin]

I was acutely aware of Soth going about with his large camera on his shoulder and a well laid out plan on how to get those images and place those people in that order in his images.

Whereas I never felt I detected that looking at Eggleston's images. To me they always felt like the product of a furious instant of intuition and effortless creativity.

This is because of the medium—8x10 vs 35mm—, not because of the photographers, although the choice of medium is part of the photographer's personality

Watch this Eggleston documentary after the Soth one. What's interesting in the two docs is that both photographers are on the road. They are looking for different things, but they both are looking simalarly : looking for people, looking at people, looking at how they live and what they leave behind. And both are grounded in their respective landscape.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

This is also very good because you see Soth working.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Soth lost me years ago when he published a photograph taken in Italy, I think it was, with a nude woman on her knees with her head in a bush, and her "parts" were sticking up. One of the worst photographs I've seen by any photographer. He seemed to me to be throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. Now he appears to be saying that out loud. Plus I find his aethetics to be pretty bland. That to me is the difference between Eggleston and Soth. I am not a fan of Eggleston (fairly neutral these dyas) but at least his images are nice to look at for the most part. I think Soth is a perfect example of once you are in, you are in. Emperor's clothes and all that. On the other hand at least he is trying something different....

 

[warden]

@albireo You should take a look at this

I haven’t seen that before, Alex. Thanks.

 

[CMoore]

i have this reaction to a lot of photographers that sell books and seem to "Have A Name" of sorts`.
Does he make a living doing this.?

 

[warden]

i have this reaction to a lot of photographers that sell books and seem to "Have A Name" of sorts`.
Does he make a living doing this.?

It's safe to assume this is how he buys his food.

 

[CMoore]

It's safe to assume this is how he buys his food.

Can he buy anything else.?
Like i say, i am not picking on just this photographer. The question rises with many i see discussed on here.

Can they generate even a living wage.... 70k - 80k dollars a year USA.... with what they do.
I just do not see how.
But i am told again and again that they are a Professional Photographer.

Is it from photo books..... how many could they sell.?
Do they get some big commissions every year from a patron.?

 

[warden]

Can he buy anything else.?
Like i say, i am not picking on just this photographer. The question rises with many i see discussed on here.

Can they generate even a living wage.... 70k - 80k dollars a year USA.... with what they do.
I just do not see how.
But i am told again and again that they are a Professional Photographer.

Is it from photo books..... how many could they sell.?
Do they get some big commissions every year from a patron.?

Soth's critically acclaimed work has been exhibited widely and is in the collections of important museums. Take a look at his Wiki and you'll see he's had a very busy career indeed.

Alec Soth - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In addition to his Magnum assignment work and personal books he also teaches photography and operates a small publishing company called Little Brown Mushroom. It's not hard to find a living wage when you add up all his effort. He may not sleep.

I take your point about other photographers for sure, and I think Soth is showing the way. If you want to be a professional photographer today and aren't independently wealthy you have to have a lot of irons in the fire like Soth does, even if your work is in museums.

For the most part photo books are a better way to spend money rather than make it, but Soth is likely an exception. Several of his titles at the Magnum shop are sold out and first editions are available for hefty prices.

 

[MattKing]

If you want to know about the market for Photobooks, try visiting Photrio's Photobook thread: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/the-photobook-thread.199816/
Consider yourself warned though about the potential for economic ruin !

 

[albireo]

Is it from photo books..... how many could they sell.?
Do they get some big commissions every year from a patron.?

Fellowships/bursaries probably. Friends in high places. Sometimes sheer talent. Loads of teaching assignments. Not unlike other realms of human pursuit, whether artistic or scientific.

Not everyone needs to dig mine shafts or sell cars to make a living.

 

[logan2z]

Is it from photo books..... how many could they sell.?
Do they get some big commissions every year from a patron.?

I don't think he's making a living from selling photobooks. According to photobook publisher Deadbeat Club:

Soth (and other Magnum photographers) do commission work, teach workshops, sell prints through the galleries that represent them, etc. I suspect that's where the bulk of his earnings come from.

 

[CMoore]

Soth's critically acclaimed work has been exhibited widely and is in the collections of important museums. Take a look at his Wiki and you'll see he's had a very busy career indeed.

Alec Soth - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In addition to his Magnum assignment work and personal books he also teaches photography and operates a small publishing company called Little Brown Mushroom. It's not hard to find a living wage when you add up all his effort. He may not sleep.

I take your point about other photographers for sure, and I think Soth is showing the way. If you want to be a professional photographer today and aren't independently wealthy you have to have a lot of irons in the fire like Soth does, even if your work is in museums.

For the most part photo books are a better way to spend money rather than make it, but Soth is likely an exception. Several of his titles at the Magnum shop are sold out and first editions are available for hefty prices.

Thanks for the info.
I was ignorant of his long and present standing in the photo community.
And your post probably sheds light on other photographers i have wondered about. It would seem that many are not making a living from photography alone..... teaching, publishing, Youtube channels, etc etc.

I started to type more, but i will just let it go right here.
Thanks Again

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Soth (and other Magnum photographers) do commission work, teach workshops, sell prints through the galleries that represent them, etc. I suspect that's where the bulk of his earnings come from.

What ? No weddings ?

Joking aside, your description is right on. A photographer like Soth, and many others, is like most writers. Very few—unless you're Stephen King or J. K. Rowling—make a living solely through book sales. Teaching, assignments, workshops, events, festivals, etc., is where it's at.

For photographers, one of the main activities of Magnum is providing them with commissions and assignments. They've also added a lot of workshops in recent years.

If I had the money, I would have loved to take Soth's Magnum course. Doesn't seem like he's giving it these days.

Learn with Magnum

event.magnumphotos.com

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Alex, if you really want to learn from him then volunteer to assist him for a week or two.

 

[CMoore]

Fellowships/bursaries probably. Friends in high places. Sometimes sheer talent. Not unlike other realms of human pursuit, whether artistic or scientific.

Not everyone needs to dig mine shafts or sell cars to make a living.

Touche`
I am definitely a blue-collar person.
So i cannot see how this guy makes 50 USD an hour for 2k hours a year. from his "Photography".
As mentioned by other members already, that is not his whole story.

I was in the building trade unions
When you ask a guy what he does for a living and he tells you he is a carpenter, painter, electrician......... That is how we make a living.
They are not also teaching classes on the weekends or running a publishing business, or selling roses online.

So that is why i asked what i did above.
People say. "I am a photographer" then i see 15-20 of their photos and i just think......No Way.
There has to be more
Low and behold....... there is.

 

[MattKing]

A large percentage of the people who make their living as a "photographer" are actually making their living running a photography business.
And a relatively small portion of that is actually taking photographs, or turning their photographs into a distributable product.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

So i cannot see how this guy makes 50 USD an hour for 2k hours a year. from his "Photography".
As mentioned by other members already, that is not his whole story.

I was in the building trade unions
When you ask a guy what he does for a living and he tells you he is a carpenter, painter, electrician......... That is how we make a living.
They are not also teaching classes on the weekends or running a publishing business, or selling roses online.

Not sure I get your point, or what the point of your comparison is. Why compare artists with blue-collar workers when there's absolutely no relevent way to compare them?

The vast majority of classical musicians teach, do corporate and private gigs and freelance in order to live.
The vast majority of writers teach, give workshops, take assigments and commissions in order to live.
The vast majority of artists teach, give workshops, take commissions in order to live.

Once in a while, they have grants.

Same goes with photographers. That's the business. That's how the system works. That is their whole story. Not need for quotation marks. It's not a blue-collar system. It's a tiny minority that actually spends all their days taking photos just for themselves. That's nobody's "whole story"—or at least very few. Look at the Magnum website. For every photographer—and there are quite a few great ones—it says "Available for commissions & assignments". Even Koudelka.