Agfapan APX 400

Sigve · Sep 8, 2005

Hi,
Could I please ask for some advice with the Agfapan APX 400 film?
Now I have bought 20 135-rolls of this film and I will travel to southern Europe where there's a lot of sun. Here are some of the things that come to mind.
1: What is the real sensitivity of the film? F.ex if it's really a 200 film, and I overexpose it one stop/ underdeveloping one stop, then my lightmeter will actually be set on ISO100!
2: Which developer produces the most brilliant tonal range?
3: Enlargements will in general be 8x10. Will the grain look good if used with Rodinal? I like grain that looks good, if you know what I mean
4: Has anyone tried Refinal with this film? What are Refinal's abilities?

Thank you.

modafoto · Sep 8, 2005

Sigve said:
3: Enlargements will in general be 8x10. Will the grain look good if used with Rodinal? I like grain that looks good, if you know what I mean

APX400 in Rodinal 1+25 is nice, but very evident grain. Try it out!

Sean · Sep 8, 2005

I just posted this in the gallery and will be sticking with this combination for apx400:

Shot at 400, dev'd in HC110 DilutionH (8ml of straight syrup to 500ml water) for 12mins at 20c. This combination has given me great shadow and highlight detail, I'm very impressed and will be stocking up on this film for 35mm street photography..

Keith Tapscott. · Sep 8, 2005

Sigve said:
Hi,
Could I please ask for some advice with the Agfapan APX 400 film?
Now I have bought 20 135-rolls of this film and I will travel to southern Europe where there's a lot of sun. Here are some of the things that come to mind.
1: What is the real sensitivity of the film? F.ex if it's really a 200 film, and I overexpose it one stop/ underdeveloping one stop, then my lightmeter will actually be set on ISO100!
2: Which developer produces the most brilliant tonal range?
3: Enlargements will in general be 8x10. Will the grain look good if used with Rodinal? I like grain that looks good, if you know what I mean
4: Has anyone tried Refinal with this film? What are Refinal's abilities?

Thank you.

Rate it at ISO 400, if in doubt, bracket your exposures. You can always make another exposure at +half a stop and + one stop extra. I don`t know anthing of Refinal other than it`s a fine-grain developer, probably similar to D-76 and ID 11 and perhaps a bit more rapid. Use the recommended developing time and check the results to see if any changes are needed before making any adjustments to the development time.
It`s probably best to shoot a test roll first.

df cardwell · Sep 8, 2005

In no particular order:

I have used Refinal extensively. It is, for the record, a Phenidone / HQ / Borax developer. Similar, therefore to Microphen, it is ( for me ) a better balance than Ilford's fine product.

Refinal makes a superb negative, but has such a short development time that it MUST be diluted - especially by one who doesn't develop film everyday. And for that reason, I can't suggest it to anybody without enough experience to work out a dilution and time for thie own work.

RODINAL: The new APX 400 ( since 2003 ) has a radiacally new development time for Rodinal. By far the best results are with 1+50 dilution, which requires a 30 minute development time.

However, with a 1+25 dilution... with less agitation ... you'll get splendid results.

APX 400 is a real ISO 400 film. But the "speed" will vary according to the 1. developer, 2. dilution, and 3. agitation. Rodinal 1+25, for example, gives a bit less speed than 1+50 because the amount of agitation is high relative to the concentration of developer.

Sean's HC-110 info is excellent. Where do you live ? I believe the Euro HC-110 is not the same concentration as USA HC-110.

SEAN ? WHICH version do you Kiwis get ?

BRILLIANT NEGS: APX 400 ? Sure.

.

felipemorgan · Sep 8, 2005

Sigve said:
1: What is the real sensitivity of the film? F.ex if it's really a 200 film, and I overexpose it one stop/ underdeveloping one stop, then my lightmeter will actually be set on ISO100!

Sigve,

I like APX400 a lot. My experience with this film is in medium format, enlarged to 8x10, and developed with either Pyrocat HD, Acufine, or a home-made Phenidone/Ascorbic Acid/Carbonate developer. I get good results in all cases when the exposure and developer suits the subject and lighting.

I am writing to tell you that if you overxpose a 400 speed film by one stop and then underdevelop it by about 20%, you set your lightmeter at 200, not 100. Overexposing the film solidifies shadow detail and enhances midtone contrast. The under-developing keeps the overall contrast of the overexposed film within a reasonable range. Reduced development tends to effect highlights first, and that is why you need not lower your lightmeter setting to 100 even if you are under-developing by a small amount.

I think you've received good developer advice from the other posters on this thread and I wouldn't attempt to apply my medium format experience with the film to your 35mm situation. Enjoy this beautiful film!

pschauss · Sep 8, 2005

df cardwell said:
In no particular order:

RODINAL: The new APX 400 ( since 2003 ) has a radiacally new development time for Rodinal. By far the best results are with 1+50 dilution, which requires a 30 minute development time.

.

30 minutes is too long. I get good results (medium format) with a 15 minute development time.

Paul Sorensen · Sep 8, 2005

df cardwell said:
Sean's HC-110 info is excellent. Where do you live ? I believe the Euro HC-110 is not the same concentration as USA HC-110.

SEAN ? WHICH version do you Kiwis get ?

Sean is mixing it roughly 1:2. That would have to be a typo. Even if you mix the concentrate into the stock that Kodak recommends, you have to dilute about another 1:13 or something (Not exactly sure) to get dilution H. Sean, do you mean 8ml? If so, that sounds like the same HC110 that the US gets.

European concentrate is 1:19 for dilution H, US concentrate 1:63. This is from the Covington Innovations HC110 page at http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/index.html.

As for the rest of the question, I have never shot APX 400. Sorry!

gnashings · Sep 8, 2005

I find that the new APX400 formulation is... well, not what I used to like so much about it. I like the range of it in Rodinal 1:50 for 15 minutes, but the grain is evident - I find that in 35mm that film has fallen off my list. Too bad - I liked the old stuff a lot - the new stuff, either I need to figure it out or its just nt my cup of tea. I tried it Microphen - whle the grain is less pronounced, I still liked the Rodinal results better.

Sigve · Sep 8, 2005

Thank you all so much! I haven't more experience with this film than one roll developed in 1:50 rodinal (9 min), and the negatives looks good. Very delicate contrast. Haven't got the chance to make a print though. Today I got a Hoya K2 yellow filter. Should I have it on all the time, or just when doing landscape? How will skintones be, compared to without filter? Can the yellow filter replace the UV-filter, I mean, do the yellow filter stop the UV-rays too?
Why would Agfa make a lower quality film if the last version was good? Or what are the special benefits of the new version over the last one?

titrisol · Sep 8, 2005

Rate it as 300 and shoot away.
APX400 works better with developers like DDX than Rodinal (IMHO), even though it has a very goo dlook in Rodinal.

Yes, replace the UV filter with the yellow.

srs5694 · Sep 8, 2005

gnashings said:
I find that the new APX400 formulation is... well, not what I used to like so much about it.

I don't recall if you've said you've ever tried it, but if not, you might consider trying Fomapan 400. I've seen claims that Fomapan 400 is very similar to APX 400, but I've never used APX 400 myself, so I can't comment from personal experience. I also don't know if the comparison applies to the old or the new APX 400. Still, it should be worth trying a couple of rolls of Fomapan. (FWIW, I like Fomapan 400; there's something about the grain pattern that appeals to me, although I can't really put in words what I like about it.) You can get Fomapan from J&C or Freestyle (the latter under both the Fomapan and Arista EDU Ultra brands). I believe B&H also offers it, but only as a "special order" item. I don't know if there are any Canadian distributors of Fomapan.

Paul Howell · Sep 8, 2005

Last spring I shot 10 rolls of APX 100 and 10 rolls of APX 120 when I was looking to replace PX and TRIX pan in 120. I developed them in my usual developers including Microdol X, D 76, HC110, the APX 100 in DK50 and a roll of 400 in Acufine. A couple of weeks ago I found a roll of 120 that I had not developed and developed it in 777. The rolls developed in Microdol, D 76 and HC 110 were outstanding, the DK 50 a little too gainey, the APX pushed to 800 was excellent. The roll I developed in 777 was excellent, then I found out that Agfa discontinued MF so I moved on. For Southern Europe I would recommend HC 110 or Microdol X 1:3. I also like Fomapan 400, looks to me like old Tri X pan, has very good latitude and handels bright sunshine and deep shadow very well.

Sean · Sep 8, 2005

Paul Sorensen said:
Sean is mixing it roughly 1:2. That would have to be a typo. Even if you mix the concentrate into the stock that Kodak recommends, you have to dilute about another 1:13 or something (Not exactly sure) to get dilution H. Sean, do you mean 8ml? If so, that sounds like the same HC110 that the US gets.

European concentrate is 1:19 for dilution H, US concentrate 1:63. This is from the Covington Innovations HC110 page at http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/index.html.

As for the rest of the question, I have never shot APX 400. Sorry!

DOH! definite typo, it is 8ml to 500ml, I've corrected it, thanks!

Sigve · Sep 8, 2005

I think Mr. Ornello may contribute to the discussion about Agfapan APX 400. Please tell us the details of your processing.

---------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Ornello
I have had very poor results with this film. It is quite grainy and lacking in contrast.

Originally Posted by Sigve
Well, chances are that you do something wrong in the process, as many others get beautiful results. Why don't you post on the board?

Originally Posted by Ornello
No, others have experienced very grainy results too. Fuji Neopan 400 is a far superior film.

Originally Posted by Sigve
Do you want to post this on the board please, or should I do it? It would be interesting for the other members on APUG as well to learn from your wide experience in BW-photography.

Originally Posted by Ornello
Go ahead.

Rolleijoe · Sep 13, 2005

APX 400 Developer

Sigve said:
I think Mr. Ornello may contribute to the discussion about Agfapan APX 400. Please tell us the details of your processing.

---------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Ornello
I have had very poor results with this film. It is quite grainy and lacking in contrast.

Originally Posted by Sigve
Well, chances are that you do something wrong in the process, as many others get beautiful results. Why don't you post on the board?

Originally Posted by Ornello
No, others have experienced very grainy results too. Fuji Neopan 400 is a far superior film.

QUOTE]

I've found that the best developer for my APX (100 & 400 alike) is Agfa's Studional aka Rodinal Special in Europe. A completely different tonal pallette than Rodinal, smoother, and super fine grain.

I process 1:15 for 6.5min @ 20C. Here's an example:

modafoto · Sep 13, 2005

Rolleijoe said:
I've found that the best developer for my APX (100 & 400 alike) is Agfa's Studional aka Rodinal Special in Europe. A completely different tonal pallette than Rodinal, smoother, and super fine grain.

I process 1:15 for 6.5min @ 20C. Here's an example

Rodinal Special (not having anything to do with Rodinal, though) is a great fine-grain dev. I use it with Delta 100 for super fine grain when shooting landscapes on 35 mm.

Morten

pschauss · Sep 13, 2005

Where do you buy Rodinal Special (aka Studional) in the US? B&H and Freestyle do not list it.

modafoto · Sep 14, 2005

pschauss said:
Where do you buy Rodinal Special (aka Studional) in the US? B&H and Freestyle do not list it.

quote from a Rodinal Special thread:

"You can get it from B&H, just call them and ask, or walk in, if your nearby. I know Calumet also sales it, and has a shop in the city as well."

Whether or not it is right I don't know, but just wants to pass it on.

gnashings · Sep 14, 2005

srs5694 said:
I don't recall if you've said you've ever tried it, but if not, you might consider trying Fomapan 400. I've seen claims that Fomapan 400 is very similar to APX 400, but I've never used APX 400 myself, so I can't comment from personal experience. I also don't know if the comparison applies to the old or the new APX 400. Still, it should be worth trying a couple of rolls of Fomapan. (FWIW, I like Fomapan 400; there's something about the grain pattern that appeals to me, although I can't really put in words what I like about it.) You can get Fomapan from J&C or Freestyle (the latter under both the Fomapan and Arista EDU Ultra brands). I believe B&H also offers it, but only as a "special order" item. I don't know if there are any Canadian distributors of Fomapan.

Thanks for the suggestion - I actually have some Fomapan 200 and a friend has some 400, will see ho wit works out for us.

As far as the new vs old formulation - I can honestly comment on that, because I did not learn about the change from a forum or literature. A good friend and I both looked at some pictures shot with APX400 and we were both more than a little disappointed with the results. Since we both (him especially) used quite a bit of the APX films, we dug out some old negs and prints and compared the appearance, and there was a definite difference - to the point were we went digging through stacks of negs from years a go, because we had apicture that looked like APX100 compared to our recent results with APX400... and to our shock, it was APX400!

To be fair to Agfa and the film - once you adjut the development, the difference is smaller, but the look is still different, and while "look" is a subjective issue, I would say its worse. As to why the change - I can't even pretend to know, so I won't venture a guess.

Of both the APX films I have used (and I never had any of the extinct 25...) I really liked the 100 in Rodinal 1:50, especially in 120. Same goes for the old 400 - and yes, the grain is apparent - but I like grain in many cases. And in this case, while apparent grain was present, the look was wonderful - you could get lost in all those tones and minute detail that had a life of its own. And I assure you, it was through no magical know how of mine - a lot of these observations go back to when I was still very new to dark room work, so I am inclined to assign all the credit to the product

This is a shot done on new APX 400, souped in Microphen - as you can see in the detail of the structures, it leaves much to be desired, in my opinion.

jim appleyard · Sep 14, 2005

Paul Howell said:
... then I found out that Agfa discontinued MF so I moved on... QUOTE]

Has this actually happened?

thefizz · Sep 14, 2005

By Rolleijoe "I've found that the best developer for my APX (100 & 400 alike) is Agfa's Studional aka Rodinal Special in Europe. A completely different tonal pallette than Rodinal, smoother, and super fine grain".

I have also souped APX 100 in Rodinal Special with success.

Peter

Fotohuis · Sep 15, 2005

All production of Agfa 120 rolfilms has been discontinued. They are still making APX emulsion, but they are not confectioning in 120 rolfilm anymore.

Rollei/Maco picked up this market now by introducing the Rollei Retro 100 and 400 films (APX 100 and 400 emulsions).
Available in 135-36 and 120 rolfilm. All 120 rolfilm confectioning is done in Hungary.
The new Rollei I.R.-400 film is made by Gevaert (Belgium), available in 135-36, 120 rolfilm and even in 4X5".

The other 3 Rollei films (Ortho, R3 and PAN25) are made in Germany.

Another good developer for APX100/400 is the Rollei High Speed developer. It's a product from the Netherlands : AM74 (Amaloco Photochemicals), so very suitable for the Retro 100/400, R3.
Also Fomapan 100 and T200 is doing very well in AM74.
AM74 is rather well known in Europe, but not at all in the USA.

In the link the new presentation of the Rollei films we received from Rollei in Braunschweig (Germany). I think they made together with Maco a quite good move to fill the gaps from the big manufacturers.

http://www.photo.net/bboard/uploaded-file?bboard_upload_id=25646984

Regards,

Robert

Ole · Sep 15, 2005

APX100 does wonderfully in Pyrocat-HD, with very good stain. Perhaps too good stain - I have used the same negative for POP (yes, I have a small stock of 9x12cm and 13x18cm APX100) and MG - with a blue filter for the MG paper.
It also does very well in Neofin, for those who don't like stained negatives.

I haven't used APX400 in many years...

jim appleyard · Sep 15, 2005

Fotohuis said:
All production of Agfa 120 rolfilms has been discontinued. They are still making APX emulsion, but they are not confectioning in 120 rolfilm anymore.

Robert

This has been a rumor for quite some time. I went to the agfa website; nothing in the news & events section. Can anyone offer documentation of this???

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