Agfa discontinues ALL MEDIUM FORMAT FILMS !!!!

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david b said:
Just received this:

Dear David,

Thank you for contacting Agfa Consumer Imaging. Please be advised that there are no immediate plans to discontinue any Agfa 120 roll films


Sincerely,
John Auer
Agfa Consumer Imaging
They said exactly the same thing about 4x5 APX100 as well. Then all of a sudden it was gone. What they tell us now is no indicator of whether it will be gone in 3 months or not.

Needless to say, I dumped everything Agfa like a hot potato when they actively lied about 4x5 APX100. Who can be dependent in any way on a supplier or vendor that acts like this? I'm probably not alone.

Hope they go bankrupt. Good riddance.
 

jovo

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i'm surprised that departments of motor vehicles and passport picture makers haven't switched to digital yet given their committment to making everyone who appears before their lenses look just godawful!! so there are a couple a holdouts for traditional processes. and schoolchildren all over the globe need film to view solar eclipses...so they're helping too. film rules!!
 

Ed Sukach

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blansky said:
Although Ed naturally will argue with me and find some guy he knows still doing it, the guy will be a very lonely low budget die hard.

I won't argue that. It's true.

However - I will submit that there are a far greater number of "Low Budget Die Hards" out there - myself included - than the "Ad-Hype" types would like us to believe. In fact ... I don't know ANY photographers that wouldn't fit that mould - and I am certainly NOT excluding professionals. How about it gang, would you describe yourself like that?

The way I see it. the field of Professional photography will evolve (or devolve?) - or are we already there? - to the same general mix as restaurants - there will be the `Great Chains' - the McDonalds, the Dunkin Donuts, the Starbucks ... heavily financed, equipped with all of the latest snazzy gadgets, ... targeting the great unwashed masses, and stamping out "cookie cutter" food; and there will be the local "Specialty" shops - French, Italian, Seafood - offering unique meals - product with "individual involvement" - the touch of a human being -- with finesse, --and directed to the tastes of individuals.

In writing this --- I sense a number of parallels between cooking - should it really be "Chef-ting"? - and photography. The one-hour labs and the disposable cameras represent TV dinners - Edward Weston would be on the level of a "Black Hat" five-star Chef...
 

Ka

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How long can film and paper be frozen and at what temerature?

I just don't understant the draw to Flat, Depthless Digital Imaging.
 

brimc76

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blansky said:
The only people using traditional darkrooms and analog equipment will be "fine art" people. God bless them.

The problem is they will have far less product to choose from because the big companies will have dropped most of it by then.


Michael

Just a thought, but if in 5 years we are unable to get decent film and paper products, can there be such a thing as "fine art" photography or will the industry "discontinue" the process altogether?
Do you think the "less choices" will just be different or different and low quality?
 

blansky

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As I, and others have stated, once the pros gradually shift away from analog, the large corporations will discontinue or sell off their analog processes.

THere will however be a number of "boutique" companies that will supply everything we will need. The problem will probably be that there won't be the same amount of choice there is today. The prices may also go up because of the less volume and less competition.

Michael
 

gma

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Whether or not this rumor is true, we know that all manufacturers will produce what will return a profit. I think we can be certain of seeing fewer products available to us in the very near future. The smaller obscure firms will no doubt be in a favorable environment for selling their traditional emulsions worldwide as long as there is a market.

gma
 

blansky

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The unfortunate part of this is that these big companies will discontinue products not because they don't make a profit, but because they don't make a HUGE profit.

Michael
 

gma

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We have no choice but to adapt to the films that will be available. Can you imagine the outcry when wet plates were replaced with dry plate technology and what about when glass plates were replaced by flexible film? How will we ever keep that curly stuff flat enough to print in an enlarger? Be courageous. We will survive.

gma
 

Tom Duffy

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I'm glad I did all my coming to terms with this in 2000 when Kodak announced it was discontinuing all 5x7 film. (later partially rescinded).

Now I don't have to contribute to this thread...

But if I did I would say that medium format film is more endangered than 35mm or large format. "35mm" digital is replacing it as we speak. Hope the medium format people prefer B&W...
 

pierre

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Hasn't Agfa already been just a marginal player in this field for years now? If Agfa dropped out of film entirely, all formats, would it be that big a deal, except to the chickenlittle crowd, or the everything-that-wasn't-invented-five minutes-ago-is-dead crowd? Personally, as an amateur for over 30 years, 40 if you count my childhood years with a little Brownie and my teen years with a Diana and a Polaroid, I've never once felt the need to use an Agfa film. Not once. Mind you, most places, there was no Agfa film to buy anyway. I don't even remember seeing an Agfa camera all these years until I saw some old folders recently in a shop (and not being in the U.S., it's not because they were Anscos either). In fact, I could have gone my whole life without ever knowing Agfa even existed, and not been the worse for it. But I have used plenty of Kodak, Konica and Fuji though.

Polaroid declared bankruptcy not that long ago, and they seem to be doing Ok, even introducing new films. If anybody should be dead because of digital, it's got to be Polaroid. A company is even producing a current model of the old Polaroid 195 for Pete's sake.

So, film sales go down, they don't disappear! Some manufacturers will inevitably have to go - that's the way capitalism works.

Painting and drawing were replaced technologically by photography decades ago as the method of illustrating newspapers. Then photograohy itself evolved for that purpose from plates to roll film to 35mm, and now photography itself has been replaced for that purpose by digital imaging crap (and yes, most of it is crap if you really stop to look at it). It didn't mean the death of painting and drawing, did it? Guess what? Artists, both amateur and pro, are always free to chose their own medium. For that matter, hand-made art could have been replaced by digitized technology for years now, but it hasn't. Why? Because digital is too clinical and mechanistic. Few people of an artistic temperament want to do things digitally, in any field. BTW, I've always considered photography an art, even if some practicioners really aren't artists (depending on what they are taking the pictures for).

Personally, I think there's a bit of a fad now, and it will eventually die down to some level of equilibrium between film and digital junk. So, let's not all lose our heads just yet. Just look at the current popularity of alternative methods of printing and so on. It's bigger now than it has ever been.

Pierre (if it's not analog, it's not photography)
 

pierre

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I guess I could or should finally try some before they disappear though :smile:

I remember when Studebaker cars went out of production, sometime around 1964 or 65. Not enough buyers for the production capacity in North America at that time. It had already happened the decade before to Packard and Hudson, and others before that. But GM, Ford and Chrysler are still making them.

Pierre (not a closet digital user)
P.S. Seriously, I don't think it's good thing for the industry, but I don't see it as a disaster either, or as a sign that it's time to jump to digital. For me anyway, if and when it gets to the point that my camera has to be a computer, I'm just dropping the hobby entirely. It won't be worth doing.
 
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david b

david b

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APX 25 was an incredible film. I still have many rolls and I use it sparingly.

APX 100 is my favorite film right now but I fear I might have to find another medium speed film.
 

Ed Sukach

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pierre said:
... I've never once felt the need to use an Agfa film. Not once.

And this means ... what?

I've used Agfa films, nearly exclusively for ... When was Isopan Record (I still have one roll of that) - and Isopan ...around? --- The mid `50's?
I've preferred them over all others -- which proves nothing.

I will survive without them... but it will be painful ... I've got to the point where I have *some* "understanding" of them.

It WILL be a "big deal" for ME.
Does that make me a "chicken little" type? - ... As if I give a gluteus maximus from the family Muridae about what someone who condemns a film - with admittedly *NO* knowledge of its characteristics - labels me.
 

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Jan Brittenson said:
Needless to say, I dumped everything Agfa like a hot potato when they actively lied about 4x5 APX100. Who can be dependent in any way on a supplier or vendor that acts like this?

I think that they might not be lying, just incompetent. Their web site has out-of-date info, and their most recent pdf on film development which was removed some months ago, presumably to correct some major obvious errors, has yet to reappear.

I was tempted by the recent new APX400, but without 120, there's no point now for me to even think about it. I do like Agfa chemcals, especially Neutol WA print developer, but there are alternatives.
 

pierre

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It means I can be perfectly happy with just HP5 and/or Tri-X, maybe FP4 sometimes, and a few colour films. I won't be missing Agfa at all.
Pierre
 

victor

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come on people - can u imagine - no apx any more....
generally, most of the times i use ilford plus films fp/hp, but apx100/400 have their own character, and even if i use them only from time to time, i wouldnt like to be in situation that i have no this choice of something different sometime. cannot imagine some of my photos without the grain and the appearance of the apx400. cannot imagine some of my photos without the deeply shining beauty of the apx100.
and their papers - mcc111/118, are they going to discontinue this too some day??????????????
help... dont want to hear it. not the papers and not the rodinal.
and on the 120rolls the apx is very important, cause it is much more difficult to get the grain i want and the curve i want sometimes on the hp, and the delta3200 is out of my taste.
if they will really discontinue their film it will be bad news to me even if i dont use them massively.
 

gma

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All of us know that the silver image on fiber paper is what photography is all about, but I think that the vast majority of our population lacks an appreciation of b&w. When people in my office see the APUG images on my monitor the usual comment is "great picture, too bad it isn't in color". A coworker told me that his daughter is taking a photography class in college "but they are only doing b&w". Let's face it folks. We are a minority and we cannot count on any manufacturer to supply our needs.


gma
 

galyons

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Digital medium is the current "state of the art" for accumulating, storing, retrieving and distributing data. That data can be manipulated into reports, graphics, digital photo images, renderings of sound or music. Digital is quantitative by definition. It takes a leap of faith the accept any qualitative aspects to digital. The basic quality, that makes digital so useful, is the same as its quantitative simplicity - it's binary, bi-polar, either "on" or "off" of a micro switching circuit.

Perhaps, we can learn from history. Let's look at the immediate predecessor to digital photography - digital recording and storage - CD's. CD's are a storage medium superior to the vinyl records that they replaced. For the general consumer, the conversion has been complete since the mid- 80's. To the general consumer, recorded music is primarily "pleasing background noise". I define this as "non-active listening". The music is an adjunct to another activity. This consumer base embraced the clean, clear sound of digital sound. Clarity is the overriding benefit. CD's met their need for background music storage.

There has always been a consumer base of active music listeners. Listening to, and enjoying recorded music is the primary activity. Although a significantly smaller consumer base, still a viable market. Generally quality vinyl records played on quality electronics comprise the music playback system - not plastic consumer equipment stacks! Fidelity is the overriding benefit of a quality medium and playback system. Fidelity, or truth, to the original artist's performance is the goal. The availability of quality vinyl recordings has NEVER been higher than today. But to the general public vinyl records ceased to exist nearly 20 years ago! The lowest common denominator to the product mix has been eliminated. There are virtually no "consumer grade" vinyl records available new. A new CD costs $18-27. A new, audiophile grade vinyl recording can be purchased for virtually the same price! Similar corollaries can be drawn to practices in the professional recording industry.

So will history repeat itself with photography? I believe so. We are not the general consumers. Film will, most likely, not be a mass market consumer product in the near future. For those who do commercial work, and especially for mass reproduction - digital, being a superior storage and transfer medium will win! Digital better meets these markets' needs. So how about us!

When quality and expression are the driving needs, not click 'n' shoot or storage and transfer, film will be a segment of the market's choice. There will be marketeers to meet that need. Will it be Kodak, Agfa or Ilford? Probably not. Columbia, RCA and London no longer produce vinyl records, but niche marketeers have very profitably filled the need! I would postulate that photographers of our ilk greatly outnumber the audiophiles. So we will be a viable niche market.

The overall cost of producing film is much lower and the overall processes are much simpler than the convolutions of the music recording industry. Look to Efke, Foma, Forte, etc. as our future manufacturers. I am perfectly happy with their products today! Just like the niche marketeers purchased the vinyl record stamping plants, perhaps the same will happen to the Film Big 3's facilities and we will have choices, yet unknown!

I am not to worried that I will have to cryo store a vast reserve of B&W film. I am confident that the market will adjust. The consumer film products will vanish in favor of digital imaging. I will be able to buy quality B&W film because, niche marketeers will step in to meet my needs.

Cheers!

Geary
 

gma

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Exactly my point, Geary. When DuPont bought Adox in the 60's they sold the machinery to an Eastern European country and now we have Efke films. If and when Agfa ceases to produce film surely they will sell their expensive machinery to someone. They aren't going to let it rust away in a pasture. If there is money to be made someone will make film for us.

gma
 

Ed Sukach

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pierre said:
It means I can be perfectly happy with just HP5 and/or Tri-X, maybe FP4 sometimes, and a few colour films. I won't be missing Agfa at all.
Pierre

I am starting to get a trifle ....

Who cares if AZO finally drops out of existence? No one uses it any more. *I* n.b. EGOCENTIRIC "I" - haven't used it so there is obviously NO need for it .. and anyone that disagrees is an idiot ...**NOT**!!

This was typed with the sarcastic key [ON ] to make a point. *DOES* the 'shoe fit' anywhere?

AGFA makes damned GOOD film. I like it and will recommend it to anyone who asks.

Aren't we shovelling the dirt into a grave that doesn't exist yet?
 

victor

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ed
i really hope this grave doesnt exist...
but as an agfa lover, u know, if the grave exists it will be a great lost and not the last lost
 

Ed Sukach

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I just checked our esteemed sponsor, Calumet (see the link at the top of the page). AgfaPan APX 100 and 400 are in stock - and ready to ship; so is Agfa Optima 100, 200 - Optima 400 "Stock is low".

We have a *rumor*, nothing more. Agfa says they are *considering* ... if Kodak or Fuji or Ilford or Efke or Fred's discount film said the same thing. it would not surprize me.

A RUMOR - and - SOME here have already placed the headstone on the grave of Agfa as a supplier.

Chill out, guys. It *could* happen - and I *could* get hit with a meteorite the next time I walk out of my front door.
 
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