Agfa APX100 Development in Rodinal

psychoanalyst_god · Mar 7, 2012

Hello,

I know that recipes are easy to find using the massive dev chart or other resources, but the roll of APX100 120 film I am about to develop is too precious to me to experiment with. So, I sincerely apologize for revisiting this topic, but I would appreciate your opinion.

Here is what I have: 120 APX100 shot at ISO100 using a Pentax 645N. most of the shots are under rainy/overcast conditions at Mt. Auburn Cemetery in Boston (which is one of the reasons why this roll is very precious to me). I have already shot them, so the ISO is fixed. Of course, it is open to change since I have 2 more rolls of this film.

My choice of developer is Rodinal. I can use whichever mode of dilution. Mode of development: either twirl or inversion although I prefer the former since I have used that before and I have never done inversion agitation.

Everything else is open to suggestion. I have heard great things about APX100+Rodinal, and I hope to get the same results with my shots.

I would really appreciate your help.

Thanks and regards,

Avi

psychoanalyst_god · Mar 7, 2012

Even stand development is an option if that would help...I love stand development since it requires so little effort!

NB23 · Mar 7, 2012

Develop same as 35mm and that's it

NB23 · Mar 7, 2012

Internet hyped Stand development for important films? No way. Go with a tried and true 100 year old proven method.

vedmak · Mar 7, 2012

there is no need to sweat it, apx 100 and rodinal are one of the famous combinations, develop normally, since it is 120 the grain is not going to be the issue.

psychoanalyst_god · Mar 7, 2012

vedmak said:
there is no need to sweat it, apx 100 and rodinal are one of the famous combinations, develop normally, since it is 120 the grain is not going to be the issue.

What are the normal conditions? Ones specified by the massive dev chart? And is that for inversion agitation?

Thanks.

Avi

psychoanalyst_god · Mar 7, 2012

The Agfa spec sheet reads 17 mins at 20C in Rodinal 1+50 using tilt agitation...is that good?

vedmak · Mar 7, 2012

psychoanalyst_god said:
What are the normal conditions? Ones specified by the massive dev chart? And is that for inversion agitation?

Thanks.

Avi

Normal conditions is 68F using your normal agitation technique, everybody is different, so if you hand processed film in the stainless/paterson tank before you know what to expect, if this is your first time not just for dev/film combo but also for tank/inversion technique, I would suggest you do one of two things a) give it to a professional lab to develop, b) shoot some more of the same film in similar conditions and develop it first to see if you need to make any adjustments to the times in the chart.

werra · Mar 7, 2012

Hm, I use 13 minutes with 1+50. Absolutely sure shot would be 8 minutes with 1+25. Constant agitation first 30 seconds, then 2 inversions after every minute (at 1:30, 2:30 etc).

MaximusM3 · Mar 7, 2012

Here is a little cherry to save yourself some time and possible aggravation. This was tested with 21 step tablet in enlarger and densities plotted.
Stainless tank + Hewes reels, Rodinal 1:50, 70 degrees, 3 minutes pre-soak, 5 gentle inversions at beginning + 3 inversions every 30 seconds, distilled water. Effective speed is 64 and normal development is 9.5 minutes for an average gradient of .42, and flare is built into these tests as well. Everything else you need you can get by reading these charts. You got Zone and Beyond Zone here. No more guessing or relying on internet legends Good luck and have fun!

MaximusM3 · Mar 7, 2012

..and here is 120. Processing is exactly the same.

Richard S. (rich815) · Mar 7, 2012

Here's one i shot with times and temps:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38698047@N00/1366426720

Leigh B · Mar 7, 2012

Wow. Lots of personal opinion and self-proclaimed experts, as is typical of the i'net.

The Agfa development chart says:
1+25: 8 minutes tank, 7 minutes drum (i.e. Jobo) @ 20°C (68°F)
1+50: 17 minutes tank, 14 minutes drum (i.e. Jobo) @ 20°C (68°F)

Recommended agitation:
"The recommended agitation is as follows: in tanks, constant for the first 30 seconds and then 5 secs every 30 seconds.
In drums, choose a rotation speed above 30 RPM (changing direction if possible)."

Considering the fact that Agfa made both the film and the developer, you would be well-advised to follow their recommendations.

Note that the recommended amount of Rodinal concentrate is 10ml per roll (35mm or 120). That may influence your choice of dilution.

Although I don't shoot APX100, I've done over 1000 rolls of APX25 120 over the last 50 years.
I always followed the recommended processing and never had a problem with the results.

- Leigh

MaximusM3 · Mar 7, 2012

Leigh B said:
Wow. Lots of personal opinion and self-proclaimed experts, as is typical of the i'net.

The Agfa development chart says:
1+25: 8 minutes tank, 7 minutes drum (i.e. Jobo) @ 20°C (68°F)
1+50: 17 minutes tank, 14 minutes drum (i.e. Jobo) @ 20°C (68°F)

Recommended agitation:
"The recommended agitation is as follows: in tanks, constant for the first 30 seconds and then 5 secs every 30 seconds.
In drums, choose a rotation speed above 30 RPM (changing direction if possible)."

Considering the fact that Agfa made both the film and the developer, you would be well-advised to follow their recommendations.

Note that the recommended amount of Rodinal concentrate is 10ml per roll (35mm or 120). That may influence your choice of dilution.

Although I don't shoot APX100, I've done over 1000 rolls of APX25 120 over the last 50 years.
I always followed the recommended processing and never had a problem with the results.

- Leigh

Manuf. reccomendations are just that. It's about fitting your negative on paper, and testing involving sensitometry are as accurate as it gets. Do this: pick a high contrast scene, with an SBR of 8-9, rate it @ 100, expose and process for 17 minutes as Agfa prescribes, and let me know how many hoops you'll have to go through to print negatives that can be used to watch a solar eclipse. Oh, and Agfa's reccomendation of 10ml minimum per roll is absolute nonsense.

Leigh B · Mar 7, 2012

Maximus...

I'm confident that you believe your skills, equipment, and technique exceed those of the manufacturer.

You'll forgive me if I don't believe you.

- Leigj

MaximusM3 · Mar 7, 2012

Leigh B said:
Maximus...

I'm confident that you believe your skills, equipment, and technique exceed those of the manufacturer.

You'll forgive me if I don't believe you.

- Leigj

Yes, you are correct, since I've tested it for myself, I shoot plenty of it, and my negatives fit beautifully and easily on grade 2 paper. You don't have to believe me, and that's perfectly fine. Since you don't shoot it, do go ahead and test yourself following Agfa's reccomendations. Let us all know what you get and give YOUR personal opinion.

Leigh B · Mar 7, 2012

MaximusM3 said:
Yes, you are correct, since I've tested it for myself.

That's amazing.

I'm sure you're the only person on this or any other photographic forum who's ever done any testing.

My congratulations.

- Leigh

Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 7, 2012

Leigh B said:
Maximus...

I'm confident that you believe your skills, equipment, and technique exceed those of the manufacturer.

You'll forgive me if I don't believe you.

- Leigj

With all due respect.

Manufacturers make recommendations based on tightly controlled lab environments. Most of us shoot in the real world, and you have to make adjustments for your own system for optimal results.
Does Agfa know what paper you print on? Do they know how you meter? No, they don't. It's a system, and what Max has done is to take all of those factors into account, something Agfa could never have done.

I can't print worth a damned using Agfa's published times. Negs are so dense I cant shine through the highlights with a 250W bulb in my condenser enlarger. Does that mean I have to adjust something, or should I continue to make negatives I can't print? You tell me.

The way I see it, making black and white prints is a system. It starts with the paper, and developer. Once you figure out what you want to use, you have to target your negatives to fit the paper and developer of choice. That is if you really want the maximum out of your system. This has always been true.

After adjusting for my own needs APX100 and Rodinal was the only film/dev combination I needed, because it printed with ease and without frustration or significant waste.

MaximusM3 · Mar 7, 2012

Leigh B said:
That's amazing.

I'm sure you're the only person on this or any other photographic forum who's ever done any testing.

My congratulations.

- Leigh

Absolutely not, and never made such claim. If you had done your own testing, you wouldn't be here trying to pick a fight with me. That information cost me time and money, and maybe it will help someone else. You can take it as you wish and frankly I don't really care. Nighty night!

zsas · Mar 7, 2012

Hey Avi - when you mention the twirl method, are you referring to the GAF anscomatic:

Humm, I am not sure how one translates inversions to twirls, this kind of tank predates me and I am not sure if there are times that Agfa published back in the day for the GAF tanks.

Anyone got any tips?

Leigh B · Mar 7, 2012

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Manufacturers make recommendations based on tightly controlled lab environments. Most of us shoot in the real world, and you have to make adjustments for your own system for optimal results.

If you'll go back and read the original post, you'll find:
1) this is a very important roll, and
2) the OP does not want to experiment.

Any recommendation from anyone here that deviates from the manufacturer's recommendations is experimentation, and thus worthless in this context.

The Agfa recommendations do work. If you got unsatisfactory results there's a problem with your process.
I expect too much agitation. That's a common problem when using Rodinal.

But whatever it might be, the subject is totally OT in the context of this thread.

- Leigh

zsas · Mar 7, 2012

Leigh B said:
Any recommendation from anyone here that deviates from the manufacturer's recommendations is experimentation, and thus worthless in this context.

The Agfa recommendations do work. If you got unsatisfactory results there's a problem with your process.
I expect too much agitation. That's a common problem when using Rodinal.

well then, what agitation schema do you recommend then? As I posted above, Avi uses twirl, I know that because I gave Avi the GAF tanks you see above, so with that said, what is the manufacturer's recommendation for the GAF tank above? I doubt you know and hence dismissing him to the manufactures recommendations is just dismissing Avi's question entirely, think you need to read his question closer

Malibucompany · Mar 7, 2012

I use APX 100 with Rodial 1:75 . I do everything at 75 degrees. I find the high diultion is great for contrast control It has compensating properties. As well as high Acutence which is jut beautiful. To see what this look like see if you can find the work of Henry Gilpin somehere.

My development time at this dilution and temerature is 11 minutes. I agitate 5 seconds every 30 seconds via rotation. I DO NOT invert. Yields a classic beautiful Black and White negative.

summicron1 · Mar 8, 2012

you are thinking too hard.

Have yu used this film before? If no, then ur going to have to take a chance and go for standard development. Experiment at your peril.

But I have to assume, since you were shooting something you are sincere about, you have used this film before. If you are, you have developed it before.

Develop it exactly the same as you have before. You know the film, you know how it came out last times, do the same you will get the same.

Development is not the time to experiment with valuable film unless you have no option because it already got screwed up in the shooting and you are trying to salvage it.

baachitraka · Mar 8, 2012

I only use APX 100 + Rodinal 1+50 for most of shooting with gentle 3 inversions at the beginning and 3 on every 5th minute for 20 mins approximately.

My question is how do I know that my negs will fit on grade 2 or higher paper apart from printing by myself?

Agfa APX100 Development in Rodinal

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