AGFA agfapan APX 400 in Rodinal 30 MINUTES?!?!

[StoneNYC]

Hey guys, I have this old role of APX400 it's the original kind, i'm not entirely sure that the emulsion has changed from the old-style, but it's definitely the old version before Agfa shut down.

I got this back in 2001 when I was in high school, the yearbook had switched to digital and my teacher knew that I was into photography and gave me several rolls of it.

I shut everything except this last roll years ago, and came across it a few years back and have been holding onto it and recently decided to shoot it.

When I looked up the times with the massive Dev chart app, it didn't seem to give a 400 speed developing data using Rodinal 1:50.

Upon further research, I found the original data sheet which says that if you're developing 1:25 it's 10 minutes and 1:50 is 30!! This seems like an extremely long developing time, when all the other developing times seem to be fairly normal in the 9 to 11 range, so why in particular is Rodinal all at a dilution of 1:50 such a long development?

I wanted to process this this evening with some of my other films, I'm not going to devote 30 minutes using Rodinal and my only other developers on hand are DD-X, and I may possibly have just a little bit of Ilfsol-3 left over.

It just seems like a very long time, I mean, HP5+ shot at 3200 times are something like 30 minutes... But this was shot at box speed. What's the deal?

Thanks oh knowledgeable bearded ones...

 

[StoneNYC]

 

[zanxion72]

For the new emulsion, the gamma-dev time curve shows that at 10 minutes you get a gamma of 0.65. At about 12 minutes you get 0.7 and beyond that, no matter how long you leave it in the developer you get no much difference. It is a very contrasty film that gets a gamma of 0.55 at 7 minutes and then fires up quickly up to 12 minutes. You cannot easily control the contrast of that film (at least not me).

 

[darkosaric]

Hi Stone,

Everybody has his own way of developing in Rodinal, but I saw some of your photos in gallery developed in Rodinal and they are little too contrasty. I would suggest that you sacrifice one roll and try stand or semi stand procedure with 1+100. Agitate first minute, hit bottom of tank 2-3 times not to have air bubbles, wait 30min, agitate 10s, hit bottom of tank, wait another 30min, stop, fix, wash. I do this procedure with any film from iso 50 to 400.
But maybe you want to have that amount of contrast - then forget about this .

Regards,
Darko

 

[MDR]

I full agree with Darko Agfapan APX 400 is one of those films that really shine in Rodinal 1+100 stand or semi stand it's very sharp but grainier than other 400 speed films from the major film companies. Looks very sharp and snappy though

 

[Newt_on_Swings]

Depending on the age of the film and storage, rodinal semi stand may produce a good deal of fog. I would probably shoot for a faster developer with some additional restrainer.

 

[StoneNYC]

Thanks guys, I've stand developed before but as you mentioned I like the contrast... So it's more trying to understand why the dev time is listed at a half an hour... Just seems extreme...

Thank you for your insight into the NEW emulsion, but I'm looking at the OLD emulsion. I only have one roll so there is no "test" besides ruining the roll or cutting someone's face in half... lol

I don't understand gamma either. I know this must be like the curve or density somehow? Or related? But I'm not a techy chart guy.

I just want to confirm that it's a good idea to develop this for 30 whole minutes ... I don't want to cook this to a crisp but don't want it to be thin either...

 

[StoneNYC]

Depending on the age of the film and storage, rodinal semi stand may produce a good deal of fog. I would probably shoot for a faster developer with some additional restrainer.

I thought about that, especially the fog bit, certainly not stand developing.

I really wanted to have this in Rodinal but can do it in Ilfsol-3 which is just as good as HC-110(B) from my experience with souping aged films. But I feel like Ilfsol-3 will be just as grainy if not worse than Rodinal. But perhaps that's better... DD-X is also an option, just thought Rodinal would give it that classic APX400 look but the times just so questionable... Has anyone used these times with good results?

 

[Xmas]

Agfa data sheet said

1+50 for gamma 0.65 17 mins

 

[StoneNYC]

Agfa data sheet said

1+50 for gamma 0.65 17 mins

http://www.digitaltruth.com/products/agfa_tech/FPD1e.pdf

This is what I'm looking at, page 9 shows "gama" for 1:25 at 10 minites at 0.65 and seems to drop off at about 17 from any change.

But doesn't show 1:50, however it does give the times for 1:50 as 30 minutes for the recommended time to reach gama 0.65 so we must be looking at different documents...

 

[Xmas]

oops that is for the 100 ISO

They only quoted 1+25 times (10 mins) for the 400 and as earlier poster said the contrast did not build with increased time.

 

[AgX]

I don't understand gamma either. I know this must be like the curve or density somehow? Or related? But I'm not a techy chart guy.

Gamma is the slope of the straight part of the characteristic curve.

As there often is lacking a straight part, special considerations are made, still leading to a value for that slope but with different designation.

 

[darkosaric]

I used this film like 7-8 years ago, when Fotokemika had KB400 that was actually this film (according to rumors in Zagreb at that time).

Here are two examples of this film:

Dead Link Removed

Dead Link Removed

At that time I did not used Rodinal, I used FR16 developer (from Fotokemika).

 

[StoneNYC]

I used this film like 7-8 years ago, when Fotokemika had KB400 that was actually this film (according to rumors in Zagreb at that time).

Here are two examples of this film:

Dead Link Removed

Dead Link Removed

At that time I did not used Rodinal, I used FR16 developer (from Fotokemika).

I see, interesting, thank you.

I see the contrast especially in the first one. Now I understand what you mean.

 

[StoneNYC]

But I still hope someone will confirm that it really is 30 minutes... Who has actually used the film back in the day...

 

[AgX]

Agfa stated

Rodinal 1+50 : 320 IS0 11min resp. 12min (depending on version of film-datasheet)



There also was a change of emulsion (2003-2005 ?). However your emulsion is still the first APX Version.
Those other times you got originate from a Rodinal datasheet from 2004, that is totally off from those earlier film data sheets.
However for that newer Version Robert Vonk explicitely advises: 400 ISO 13min
So there still is quite some confusion.