AGFA agfapan APX 400 in Rodinal 30 MINUTES?!?!

Hey guys, I have this old role of APX400 it's the original kind, i'm not entirely sure that the emulsion has changed from the old-style, but it's definitely the old version before Agfa shut down.

I got this back in 2001 when I was in high school, the yearbook had switched to digital and my teacher knew that I was into photography and gave me several rolls of it.

I shut everything except this last roll years ago, and came across it a few years back and have been holding onto it and recently decided to shoot it.

When I looked up the times with the massive Dev chart app, it didn't seem to give a 400 speed developing data using Rodinal 1:50.

Upon further research, I found the original data sheet which says that if you're developing 1:25 it's 10 minutes and 1:50 is 30!! This seems like an extremely long developing time, when all the other developing times seem to be fairly normal in the 9 to 11 range, so why in particular is Rodinal all at a dilution of 1:50 such a long development?

I wanted to process this this evening with some of my other films, I'm not going to devote 30 minutes using Rodinal and my only other developers on hand are DD-X, and I may possibly have just a little bit of Ilfsol-3 left over.

It just seems like a very long time, I mean, HP5+ shot at 3200 times are something like 30 minutes... But this was shot at box speed. What's the deal?

Thanks oh knowledgeable bearded ones...

For the new emulsion, the gamma-dev time curve shows that at 10 minutes you get a gamma of 0.65. At about 12 minutes you get 0.7 and beyond that, no matter how long you leave it in the developer you get no much difference. It is a very contrasty film that gets a gamma of 0.55 at 7 minutes and then fires up quickly up to 12 minutes. You cannot easily control the contrast of that film (at least not me).

Hi Stone,

Everybody has his own way of developing in Rodinal, but I saw some of your photos in gallery developed in Rodinal and they are little too contrasty. I would suggest that you sacrifice one roll and try stand or semi stand procedure with 1+100. Agitate first minute, hit bottom of tank 2-3 times not to have air bubbles, wait 30min, agitate 10s, hit bottom of tank, wait another 30min, stop, fix, wash. I do this procedure with any film from iso 50 to 400.
But maybe you want to have that amount of contrast - then forget about this .

Regards,
Darko

I full agree with Darko Agfapan APX 400 is one of those films that really shine in Rodinal 1+100 stand or semi stand it's very sharp but grainier than other 400 speed films from the major film companies. Looks very sharp and snappy though

Depending on the age of the film and storage, rodinal semi stand may produce a good deal of fog. I would probably shoot for a faster developer with some additional restrainer.

Thanks guys, I've stand developed before but as you mentioned I like the contrast... So it's more trying to understand why the dev time is listed at a half an hour... Just seems extreme...

Thank you for your insight into the NEW emulsion, but I'm looking at the OLD emulsion. I only have one roll so there is no "test" besides ruining the roll or cutting someone's face in half... lol

I don't understand gamma either. I know this must be like the curve or density somehow? Or related? But I'm not a techy chart guy.

I just want to confirm that it's a good idea to develop this for 30 whole minutes ... I don't want to cook this to a crisp but don't want it to be thin either...

Newt_on_Swings said:

Depending on the age of the film and storage, rodinal semi stand may produce a good deal of fog. I would probably shoot for a faster developer with some additional restrainer.

Click to expand...

I thought about that, especially the fog bit, certainly not stand developing.

I really wanted to have this in Rodinal but can do it in Ilfsol-3 which is just as good as HC-110(B) from my experience with souping aged films. But I feel like Ilfsol-3 will be just as grainy if not worse than Rodinal. But perhaps that's better... DD-X is also an option, just thought Rodinal would give it that classic APX400 look but the times just so questionable... Has anyone used these times with good results?

Agfa data sheet said

1+50 for gamma 0.65 17 mins

Xmas said:

Agfa data sheet said

1+50 for gamma 0.65 17 mins

Click to expand...

http://www.digitaltruth.com/products/agfa_tech/FPD1e.pdf

This is what I'm looking at, page 9 shows "gama" for 1:25 at 10 minites at 0.65 and seems to drop off at about 17 from any change.

But doesn't show 1:50, however it does give the times for 1:50 as 30 minutes for the recommended time to reach gama 0.65 so we must be looking at different documents...

oops that is for the 100 ISO

They only quoted 1+25 times (10 mins) for the 400 and as earlier poster said the contrast did not build with increased time.

StoneNYC said:

I don't understand gamma either. I know this must be like the curve or density somehow? Or related? But I'm not a techy chart guy.

Click to expand...

Gamma is the slope of the straight part of the characteristic curve.

As there often is lacking a straight part, special considerations are made, still leading to a value for that slope but with different designation.

I used this film like 7-8 years ago, when Fotokemika had KB400 that was actually this film (according to rumors in Zagreb at that time).

Here are two examples of this film:

Dead Link Removed

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At that time I did not used Rodinal, I used FR16 developer (from Fotokemika).

darkosaric said:

I used this film like 7-8 years ago, when Fotokemika had KB400 that was actually this film (according to rumors in Zagreb at that time).

Here are two examples of this film:

Dead Link Removed

Dead Link Removed

At that time I did not used Rodinal, I used FR16 developer (from Fotokemika).

Click to expand...

I see, interesting, thank you.

I see the contrast especially in the first one. Now I understand what you mean.

But I still hope someone will confirm that it really is 30 minutes... Who has actually used the film back in the day...

Agfa stated

Rodinal 1+50 : 320 IS0 11min resp. 12min (depending on version of film-datasheet)



There also was a change of emulsion (2003-2005 ?). However your emulsion is still the first APX Version.
Those other times you got originate from a Rodinal datasheet from 2004, that is totally off from those earlier film data sheets.
However for that newer Version Robert Vonk explicitely advises: 400 ISO 13min
So there still is quite some confusion.