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After more than half a century in the darkroom, I think that I have just discovered the wheel.

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iakustov

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Here's the math. Kodak and Ilford both rate fixer at 20 prints per quart/liter if you divide 1000ml by 20 you get 50ml!

Wait, but they rate 20 8"x10" prints per l , and 50 ml covers only 5"x7" tray, for 8"x10" tray 100 ml would be needed, right? If you dump 100ml of fixer each time, you end up with only 10x 8"x10" prints per 1 litre of working solution..
 

darkroommike

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So at the end of fixing one print in 50mL of fixer the fixer is exhausted, having reached its nominal limit. Is that good?
For black and white, the only processing I do, I prefer the two-bath fixing system.
When you do two bath fixing you are still doing 20 prints per liter, using 50 ml of absolutely fresh fixer per print gives the (almost) same capacity in number of prints fixed with the absolute certainty that each fresh is fixed to the same archival limit. First print to last print, each print is fixed for the optimal minimum time in absolutely fresh fixer.
 

darkroommike

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It is not about Stop to be cheap, it is about polluting for no reason. But seems what only Stop is wasted. Or maybe it gets to its capacity by twenty of 16x20. Developer and fixer are at exact capacity.
The only thing I'm not getting is how twenty prints are washed enough and within reasonable amount of time, if only single tray. Minimum wash is what? 30 minutes for FB?
If you fix using Davis's method, you can wash using the Ilford method, then each print only requires a few minutes wash, or if doing FB, you could do a couple of rinses in your one tray and transfer the print to your archival washer.
 
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David Lyga

David Lyga

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David let me short state :" When I read a post of you here on APUG/PHOTRIO I allways must smile a bit - mostly much more than a bit ! "
But beware of misunderstandings - It is not the case to laught ABOUT you (obvioulsly I read some replys to your posts of members who ALLWAYS are against your methods - may be some of them are indeed just laughting) but as I remember you just don't care about them - RIGHT SO !!!
Well what I am trying to say is : Somtimes the style and the approach to manage problems or to have a new method in use, seams to look a bit strange. BUT on a second look it is most praticable :D....!
So let me say - don't let it be - others irretate your ambitions !
And I am allway smiling because I love your Posts :angel:....
To think different was allways the way to come to new solutions in every period of
human history.

with friendly greetings

I will write this for benefit of ALL of you (because I love you all!) but, especially for 'trendland' (who just made my ... day... week... year ...). TRENDLAND: I really WISH you would laugh at me and not be embarrassed about doing that!

First, the social aspects about what trendland said: I KNOW that there are those who utterly disdain all that I write. There is, with some, a 'necessity' to have a knee-jerk reaction which stresses the imperative to 'override the foe'. These 'attacks' have followed me ever since I had the nerve to begin first grade in September 1956 and I have been a social outcast since then. So, since I already know that and since I have had quite a lot of time to acculturate myself to this and develop counter mechanisms which do not focus on a return ot the hate, I expect these attacks to manifest and, though I do not directly embrace this, I do not begin a flame war but, instead, I learn from this because sometimes one's detractors actually have something valuable to impart. Always going through life in 'defensive mode' can be highly counterproductive towards mental and emotional growth. (Please teach that to your kids who, today, are too 'entitled', too lacking in discipline, too inconsiderate toward others.)

Now, to keep the moderators happy, I will continue with processing: My stop bath is, indeed, weak because it has to be used only once. In fact, it consists of only 3 ml of Kodak Indicator Stop Bath per liter (which equates to 2.5 ml of acetic acid or about 9 ml of 28% acetic acid). So, there, there is no waste. My fixer is standard 'paper' dilution which is half the film dilution. Now, I indicated that my 50 ml is for a 5 X 7 and NOT for an 8 X 10, so there might be a bit of waste here. But, to tell the truth, you COULD use only 50 ml of fix for the 8 X 10 and, using careful rocking ... as long as you know that the print is moving and face DOWN, it WILL be PROPERLY fixed. (REMEMBER, after a few seconds in the fix you can turn on the lights and manage that tiny 50 ml for a whole 8 X 10 far more efficiently.) And for the developer, I have already stressed that I dilute, highly (1 + 9 for RA4 and about 1 + 4 for Dektol) so you KNOW that there is no waste! You have to understand that you are using absolutely fresh chemistry each time and do not have to concern yourself with 'falloff' as when the chemistry is used in the normal way.

You have to set up a series of cups (I use pudding/applesauce cups because they are difficult to knock over in the dark). Set them up according to how you work. I am left-handed and tend to want to work from right to left, unlike most out there. Make this comfortable for yourself and, if done properly, you will be amazed with how little real-estate you use to process what you want. I live in a 12 ft X 12 ft efficiency and you can imagine how space is a premium for me.

Yes, trendland, to think different(ly) was always the way to come to new solutions (in life). Some do not want the change (Luddites in 18th century UK) and some embrace new ideas (Bill Gates). My idea is not new, just a bit unconventional. The flat bottom of that tray is important here, as is the face down aspect of the print. I cannot deviate from this 'new' method, as it has made my darkroom life far easier. The rinses (50ml each, with agitation) follow fixation (two rinses) and after blixing (three rinses, to utterly banish the potassium ferricyanide), making development possible for the next print. - David Lyga

NB: My online pictures are not as sharp as they are in the print because I do not have a dedicated scanner. I simply photograph the print with a cheap digital camera (3.2 MP) and let it go at that.
 
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Ko.Fe.

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If you fix using Davis's method, you can wash using the Ilford method, then each print only requires a few minutes wash, or if doing FB, you could do a couple of rinses in your one tray and transfer the print to your archival washer.

Ilford method for RC paper I know from RC paper manual is to wash at least 30 seconds and do not exceed five minutes of paper been wet it total. But I quit on Ilford RC due to instability issues of recently purchased, used paper.
So, FB needs second tray for washing. No big deal. Now after we double checked on all environmental issues, it is green light for me to try.
 
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